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« Just spitballing here | Main | For general audiences »

Dec 18, 2012


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TBill Yaner

"Guns don't kill people". No, but the bullets shot from guns that put an eccentric rotation on them to increase the size of the entrance and exit wounds and maximize the destruction of everything in between, and the clips that mostly eliminate the time to reload - yah, those kill people. Get it?

Nonetheless, most of the posts on this string can't resist the tug of the grandiose, all encompassing sweep of great cultural questions. To you I say once again my friends: IT'S THE HARDWARE. You've over complicated and rendered distant that which is essentially simple and Immediate. The overwhelming bias of our times, though, is towards talk over action because it's more safe and comfortable and asks so little of us other than to pontificate.

sean coon

i've designed more than a handful of video games and i'm a proud ps3 owner, so i'd like for that study to shut the door on any correlation between american murders and video game consumption, but does little big planet sales equate with call of duty sales? until the data becomes more specific to sales of mature and adults only titles, i can't agree with the finality of your statement.

and yes, this is a simultaneous conversation to changing gun laws.


TBill Yaner 11:12 PM

There are guns that intentionally put an eccentric rotation on their projectiles?
That defeats using spin for accuracy.
Name some of them and where did you hear this?

sal leone

Hey Michelle, I dont want to bring up the issue of discipline but we have to face it sooner or later. The way kids are raised is vital on how they act as adults. A happy home makes for happy people. Who knows what pushed him over the edge to do what he did, the divorce of his parents, there is a lot we dont know and some we will never know. The biggest problem I see today is the single parent home, family structure is breaking down, discipline is breaking down. I stated earlier about video game violence, the games are not the cause of all the evil in the world but I was trying to make a point that violence is all around us and some kids out there are weak menatlly and can not understand that the game is just a game.
I am not sure if this Adam kid was bullied yet as the investigation is far from finished, but would not surprise me if he was. There are plenty of issues here and we can spend years discussing them, gun rights, child raising, mental health and so on. The fact will not change what happened and those poor lives will never come back. What a messed up world we have.

Ed Cone

Sal, I don't think Michele was reacting to the idea that firm discipline from involved parents is a necessary thing, just to the notion that talking to kids "giving them the belt" is an example of doing that right.

I'd guess you meant firm discipline that might even include some physical discipline, but as written it came across as eschewing talk in favor of violence and intimidation.

Which I doubt was your meaning.


"What purpose does a gun that can fire 45 rounds per minute serve? Still unanswered."

For self-defense against worst case scenarios (however unlikely we may deem them) and to defend against the tyranny of an unchecked government. Agree or disagree, those are real the reasons. It's not so much that people need such weapons now, but that they might in the future in order to secure their property and freedom and the Constitution gives them the right to do so with guns.


I shudder to think how we would have defended ourselves against the tyranny of an unchecked government before the invention of such weapons. Does anyone know where I can buy a tank or light saber?

Dave Ribar


Sal's views regarding the "useful" role of violence are pretty clear. You'll recall his earlier comments on keeping guns out of the hands of gang members...

"...lets remember gang member on gang member is not a problem...I know gang bangers and they choose their life style so if they live by the sword then they die by it, find by me. This is actually a crime reduction if you think about it, one felon kills another felon, future decrease in crime, sad but true."

sal leone

Hi Dave
I don't like violence but it is a part of life since the earth began to turn. Dave if you do your research on crime rates in major cities you will see that there is a spike in violence, murders but then a drop because the victim is sometimes a murder himself. Dave I am not sure how many gang bangers you know or worked with on the street but I deal with my fair share and talking to them is a lost cause sometimes, violence is what they know and respect. I can't stop them from killing eachother but if they must then so be it as long as innocent lives are not lost.
As per the belt theory well I dont like the idea of hurting children but there has to be discipline in childrens lives, if non physical ways work then great but kids are getting away with murder these days, the violence has to stop one day.
Dave we have a lot of social issues these days, we have Domestic Violence, broken homes, single parent homes, gangs on the street that offer acceptence to these kids. I been in the business for years and things are getting no better, drugs and alcohol are out of control, I live it dave and I try to save those I can but most dont want help Dave.
Dave if you like I can take you to drug houses and gang banger locations if you like, you can talk with them and I hope you can get through to them but I think I will be right and I pray that I am wrong.


The violence has to stop one day and beating them is the best way to accomplish that.

sal leone

I almost forgot Dave to add my historic response to your comment about violence. I walk withmy eyes open Dave and know that violence is part of the human soul. There are people that want to talk all the time but violence sometimes is what people respond to.
Lets take a trip down memory lane to Sept 1939, a few years before my birth, well more than a few, Hitler invaded Poland and began his violence towards the Jewish people, England and France gave Hitler a few days to withdraw from Poland but talk got us no place quick, violence is what saved the Jewish people from evil, not talking and understanding, guns and bombs did the trick. '
So Dave please understand that I hate violence but know that it is part of being human.


"a 30-06 hunting rifle is significantly more powerful than a Bushmaster AR-15."

This is simply not true. The round may be slightly larger, but the muzzle velocity of the AR-15 is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,200 feet per second, while the 30-06 maxes out in the 2,900 fps range.

They were both designed to kill up to a kilometer away. In other words, it ain't your Daddy's .22 varmint gun.


Scharisson, simple high school physics says that it simply is true. The .30-06 round is 3 times larger in mass. The energy of a .30-06 round is over twice that of a .223 round.


"The .30-06 round is 3 times larger in mass."

Right. And that's the reason the US Army dropped it in favor of the .223 for its standard service rifle: less weight and less recoil for an increased rate of fire.


I didn't take physics, so I'll have to take your word on the mass thing. But energy is only one of the factors associated with lethality. The fragmentation effect of most military-grade .223 rounds produces some pretty horrific effects that a through-and-through wound from a 30-06 probably wouldn't.

And we do have some historical data at hand. For the most part, the North Vietnamese/Viet Cong used the 7.62 round (similar mass to a 30-06) and the U.S./ARVN forces used the 5.56 round. I understand there are a lot of variables, such as the quality of medical care and aerial bombardment and such. But the other side had something like 1.1 million dead, versus 58,000 for our side.

I'd say the lethality of the AR-15 has been pretty well established.


Yeah, and the Soviets moved to the 5.45x39 for the AK74. The Chinese just introduced the 5.8x42.

sean coon

cool! awesome!... sigh.


The following link is quite interesting to me. I realize it has a pro-gun angle, but there is a great deal of objective information about guns that I hope folks find interesting as well.



The whole freaking point of developing an assault rifle in the military context was trading "full power" cartridges for speed and control, and Small Caliber High Velocity is the culmination of that. It ain't about varmints.


"Right. And that's the reason the US Army dropped it in favor of the .223 for its standard service rifle: less weight and less recoil for an increased rate of fire."

Indeed. The mindset is that in warfare it's better to mortally wound your enemy than to outright kill him. It requires the enemy to expend additional manpower to deal with the wounded.


Sal, I have been ministering to violent offenders for 11+ years as part of my work with the chronically homeless. One of the common denominators among this population is childhood abuse. There is also a documented link between child abuse and youth aggression, as well as child abuse and gang membership. The notion of hitting children to teach them not to be violent toward others is patently absurd. I am shocked that a law enforcement officer is not aware of the research in this area and that you would suggest otherwise, particularly in a public forum, and especially in a blog thread whose topic is lethal violence toward children. Your words are revealing.

sal leone

Michelle, I am glad that you are helping the homeless and there are some good people amoung that crowd because I talk with them on a regular basis. I am not talking child abuse in regards to discipline, a spanky never hurt anyone, and yes I know the difference between crossing the line between abuse and discipline.

Michelle I have studied abuse along time and worked with homeless people for sometime, my fist asignment was back in 1994, some good days. Michelle I understand that you have a different approach to things but we live in a violent world, some kids are just mean. I know plenty of kids that are raised right and bully other kids, etc. There is no easy answer to raising kids right, sometimes you need luck and lots of praying. You totally misunderstand me, maybe because I see more and really know the evil of people. I have seen plenty in my alost 20 years, give me a buzz sometime and I can let you in on things my eyes have seen and plenty from good kids that were never hit and spolied all their lives.

sal leone

Hi Michelle
By the way I almost forgot, you ever wonder what the current city council or county people are doing for the homeless. I actually had a plan but its on hold till elected. If you ever think about going to the council meeting let me know because ask the members on the board why they found millions for the arts center and never can find a dime for the homeless, you know why, they dont care.

I am trying to start a jail diversion of the homeless because jail is not the answer for them since they are menatlly ill, not all but some.
Give a buzz, you might be shocked


Michelle, Great point.

Child Abuse is rampant and comes in so many varieties that only the most heinous and ugly are considered criminal.

sal leone

Child Abuse will always be around, lots of social issues fueling it. You have kids having kids, people having kids who dont know how to raise them, or even want them. Some have kids just to get a check, I know a few of those. What a sad place America has turned into, we have money, a great education system, you would think we be above violence, but we are not. I hope people wake up and hold those in office accountable, thats judges, the DA, city council, county comm, state rep and senators, congress and president.

But I hate to say it, I think people will forget and move on with their lives, just look at the voting poll numbers and you will see how low they are, lucky to get 25% in the general during off years. I guess people will blame me for that too.


Sal, I'm currently sitting by the fire at a tent city with a bunch of homeless ex-cons. Maybe sometime you can tell me more about your perspective on homelessness and criminals. But I'm inclined to think that their's is more compelling.


I agree with Ashely Judd. If it's not nurturing, It's child abuse.

sal leone

I can tell you this Michelle that I respect the work you do. I can say that the homeless are people too and for years have been given the short end of the stick by our government and society. I have always enjoyed talking with the homeless because they like me have a story. I am not the evil guy that you may think I am, yes I might be hard on some issues but we dont have to agree on all issues. I do agree that kids should not be beaten or presured to do something, the belt theory was a old way of saying spanking the butt and not hurting a child beyound normal levels of punishments.

We do have things in common michelle, we just might have a different way to get there. In regards to the fire with the ex-cons, I would join you but they might throw me in the fire for teh work I do,lol, but they are good people so they might not. I have no problems with ex-cons, some people never got a break in life.



I misspelled "theirs" and it's been bothering me ever since. Put it down to typing on a mobile phone by a campfire while carrying on a group conversation on a different subject. I'm not a great multi-tasker. So, why was I checking this blog? Sigh. I know. I'm hooked.

"I am not the evil guy that you may think I am..."

Your words, not mine. We see the world differently.

Meanwhile, at tonight's homeless memorial, we also remembered those who died in Newtown. And gave thanks for a God who has not forgotten us -- any of us -- even when the days seem darkest.


"a spanky never hurt anyone" -- Future City Council Representative Leone

Then why do it?

Andrew Brod

"I guess people will blame me for that too."

You think people will blame you for low voter turnout? Or for forgetting (something, perhaps Sandy Hook, child abuse, or violence in general) and moving on with their lives?


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