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« Show me the money | Main | All apologies »

Nov 28, 2012


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"I was demonized last time I stood up. I am just stubborn enough I am not going to back down,” Carroll said"

NO richie rich Roy you got your ass handed to you last time.


From YES! Weekly:

Greene Street, which was the primary target of complaints from developer Roy Carroll that fueled the new noise ordinance earlier in the year, had significantly more calls than any other venue in the last two years according to a chart in Miller’s presentation. Arizona Pete’s 441 calls for service seem petty next to 702 from Greene Street, while Carolina Mexican Restaurant, Inferno and Lotus Lounge were the only other venues to hit 300.

Greene Street owner Kenny Efird said the call volume could only be that high due to noise ordinance complaints, saying that Carroll has called the police every night the club has been open, and even some nights they haven’t. On Nov. 15, police arrived at Greene Street after a complaint from Carroll, Efird said, only to issue a citation to One17 next store. A week prior an officer responding to a complaint that he said came from Carroll told Efird that he wasn’t even going to do a decibel reading because it was so quiet, and Efird said police arrived after Carroll called on Oct. 24, a night the club wasn’t even open.

“Based on what the officers are telling us, the day-to-day officers, he calls every single time we’re open, and sometimes three or four times a night,” Efird said. “I don’t know when enough is enough. It’s harassment. There’s got to be some kind of penalty.”

sean coon

sounds like roy carroll is a prick. (bonus points for naming the flick)


Dean Wormer's car from Animal House?

Nedermeyer's car from Animal House?

Eric Robert

The arrogance and sense of entitlement is indecent and irritating. He actually thinks he has the reach and means to manipulate our democratic government ..."folie des grandeurs " certainly! We simply gave the man too many bad habits.




It appears that the GPAC will be about as far away from Center Point as Greene Street Club is.

How much noise do 3,000 people make coming out of a show
at 11:30?

How much noise would their cars make
leaving at the same time?

The front door to the GPAC in today's paper
about faces Center Point.

Whoever lives there will have to deal with about 1,500 cars
leaving the immediate area all the time.

So Roy sells his taxpayer subsidized condos with a taxpayer funded PAC,
wants the noise from it,
but not the noise from and/or the black folks dancing on top of Greene Street?

Having taken Greensboro and Guilford taxpayers for almost $10 million lately...?

Ed Cone

Carroll renovated one of the largest buildings in town after it stood vacant for a punishingly long time. It was one of the most positive things to happen downtown -- or really anywhere in Greensboro -- in many many years. He got a tax break on the project, and good for the elected officials who were smart enough to help with the deal.

Peggy Hickle

While the traffic from the proposed GPAC site would likely be primarily focused on the Church St., Davie St. areas where the two closest decks are, the point is well-taken. Would have been worse for Center Pointe at the proposed N. Elm site, though -- maybe Roy pledged some money if they went with the Y site.

Ironically, at the early noise ordinance meetings, the on-the-ground police officers told us, as did a group of citizens, that the biggest noise concern was the UNCG area -- that downtown didn't even come close.

There were some concerns expressed to Greene St. at that time; they said they were taking steps to muffle the noise from their club. We use the same sound company that they do, and from what I'm told, my music, while not as late, is probably much louder -- and right in Center Pointe's front yard. We've never received a complaint -- well, not about noise. Does make you wonder....

Peggy Hickle

And Ed, yes, Roy did a good thing for downtown -- and not being a taxpayer in GSO, I don't get a voice in whether or not anyone should begrudge him the tax break. I wouldn't -- but, doing something good for downtown doesn't give you bullying rights and I can tell you, that has happened more than once.


Hey, Roy. Piss off. That's right. Piss off. You are tying up valuable community resources every time you call the police and take an officer away from protecting the community in order to participate in your personal grievance mission.

Stop being selfish. You can move out to the country if you don't like a thriving nightlife.

Sounds like you have been trying to build a downtown culture in your own personal image. What hubris. I hope Greene Street goes seismic with the beats tomorrow night and Saturday. Enjoy.

Jim M

All I can say is: Shhhh. I saw that posted at Sessions near the UNCG campus on Spring Garden. Great beer selection there, btw.

"If the City Council won’t listen, he’ll find people who will run against them, Carroll told Scoop today." I do like that mentality. Too bad the rest of Greensboro doesn't feel the same way and that the only way to create change is to change the players and the game...

Also, does Roy own property near PTI?

Jim M

Ed, I also agree renovating the building was a good thing...in concept. Building "luxury condos" in a downtown the size of Greensboro was not the right use though. I'll admit I don't know much about them, so pardon any ignorance.

At the time they were being sold, I was looking for a condo downtown. I bought elsewhere downtown because Center Pointe wasn't a good value proposition (and still isn't).

The make-up of the downtown shops, restaurants, clubs etc, largely caters to the young professional. The condos should have been built to be affordable to that demographic. Instead of empty units, it would probably be sold out and I may have even purchased one at the time.

Also renovating an old building does not give one the "key to the city." I pay my taxes just like him and everyone else in Greensboro. Well, almost everyone else in Greensboro. I don't expect any special treatment from the elected officials because I own a condo downtown. Yeah, I know, it's not the same thing...

Ed Cone

Of course Carroll doesn't deserve special treatment, and no doubt he's handled the noise issue as clumsily as possible.

Interesting critique of the condo strategy, Jim.

sean coon

i think jim hits it on the head. at the time i was buying downtown in '06 (as a 35 year-old professional, not necessarily "young"), i stopped by the sample office on eugene to check out the style and prices. the interior design felt to be post-50 years-old gaudy (not judging post-50 year-olds, just saying it looked to be designed for an older market) and the prices rivaled what i could get in jersey city... in the financial district. so i bought a two story townhouse in the heart of southside for half the cost.

all this said, it's fine for roy to build these condos. god bless him. but he didn't build them for the people who would enjoy the neighborhood as is; he built them for how his development mind imagined a remake of the area if only he could get his fingers into the mix.

btw, the picture is from fast times at ridgemont high.

sal leone

I am not defending Roy but he is frustrated and he spoke in anger. The fact that we need to bring both parties to the table is vital. I feel for the tenants and the subjects who visit downtown for the nightlife. The city council has failed us and this is what happens in society when government does not work. I like to remind people that even with the fact that Roy made money, he still brang life downtown. I am not on Roys payroll and I dont agree with everything he does but he is a tax payer all the same. I have been doing some research on the issue and came up with a plan, a different ordinance, somethings the same and some different.


All I am going to say.....the clubs and bars were there first.


"Also, does Roy own property near PTI?"

I recall Mr. Carroll recently getting permission to built apartments
in the noise cone of PTI.

I recall him telling me at that meeting
that there were about 65 apartments already built in the noise cone
off Horse Pen Creek,
you know, the one which has/had a big NAI Piedmont sign on it.
"The make-up of the downtown shops, restaurants, clubs etc, largely caters to the young professional. The condos should have been built to be affordable to that demographic."

Absolutely correct.

I believe Mr. Carroll wants everyone else to pay for a business mistake.

Mr. Carroll inaccurately interpreted the market.


Isn't this really about old Greensboro money
against new Greensboro entrepreneurs trying to eke out a living
under what was hoped to be a level playing field?

Isn't this about some who want to sell condos to upper class clients but can't,
because there are too many black people hanging around the park and the clubs?

Did Roy try to buy Center City Park
to get the indiginous population out of there?

Isn't this about apartment dwellers who want the clubs
against new curmudgeon "home owners" who want their perfect place
regardless of who showed up first and why most moved to downtown?

After some real entrepranuers took chances,
leading to big money to move in to take advantage of other business owners' good fortune,
by trying to nudge them out of business and selling concepts that are antithetical
to what was earned by hard work and time?

How is this not Greensboro's oligharchy looking out for thier own?
If Robbie Perkins put the proposed Noise Ordinance on City Council's agenda,
why did he then say it wasn't a good idea?

“The council made a very wise move by not voting on what was proposed,”
Perkins said at the Downtown Residents Association meeting.

...Business owners at locations like Greene Street
say they will be negatively impacted,
and even though the ordinance is citywide, they say they feel targeted.

“I think we’ve got a problem,
and it’s basically been brought to light by the Greene Street bar
and what they do on the rooftop,” Perkins said."


Jim M

Ed, it appears everyone but Mr. Carroll believes he doesn't deserve special treatment.

And in fact, he may not even believe he deserves it...but from what he's been saying, he certainly seems to have counted on it.

Peggy Hickle

Hartzman -- it's an urban myth that Roy Carrol tried to buy Center City Park -- for any reason. While it sounds like something he might do, you can let that one go.

Ed Cone

Also time to let go the oligarchy meme, as support for Carroll evaporated quickly. That's the whole point of his latest remarks -- the establishment is not in his corner, so he wants to buy a new one.

He is, though, very popular at this odd and seemingly forgotten Roy Carroll-themed Tumblr blog.



On this issue, how has our government failed us? Seems to me that without government, a very wealthy man would have been able to dictate his wants over a large group of people. As far as I'm concerned, preventing a few from dictating to the many is a pretty nice function of our government.


Mr. Carroll has already done a lot of dictating.
"Roy Carroll requested that 45 acres on Horse Pen Creek Road
at the intersection of Jessup Grove Road be rezoned for a mixed-use development.

The plan calls for 18,000 square feet of retail, 110,000 of office and 360 apartments.

Almost the entire development is inside the noise cone
and Horse Pen Creek Road is one of the most overcrowded in the city."

John Hammer
All the google searches come up crap at the News & Record site.

Are they going to have the stories with comments up at some point,
or are they deleting some of Greensboro's online history?


"time to let go the oligarchy meme, as support for Carroll evaporated quickly"

Roy made a tactical mistake that puts the GPAC
and the night club ordinance in jeopardy.

I think I'll keep the oligarchy theme in tact
as long as Roy, Robbie, Zack and Nancy Hoffman
continue to act in the best interests of a select few
including themselves
at the expense of everyone else.

The level of self dealing in the GPAC deal
by those on the GPAC Task Force is appalling.

sal leone

HI Stephen
What I mean by fail is that the issue should not as gone on for this long and divided people. The issue is simple, its a noise complaint, if the current laws were not a problem then why start to remake the wheel again. There needs to be closure and we need to move on to bigger issues in GSO, like jobs.


"The level of self dealing in the GPAC deal
by those on the GPAC Task Force is appalling."

SOP for the Business As Usual cabal, and those who support/endorse/enable misfeasance and malfeasance of the public trust.


Carroll is a plutocrat like many who buy influence downtown. Meanwhile, the same liberals who denounced Mitt Romney for being a plutocrat don't seem to have much trouble continuing to support the local version. In typical limousine liberal country club fashion, they say one thing and then do something else.


Again with the false equivalence. The local analog to Romney is Erskine Bowles, not Roy Carroll.

Ed Cone

People aren't criticizing Carroll for being wealthy or successful.

It was just terrible, though, the way some people cooked up those criticisms of Mitt's business career (starts roughly 2:30).


Not all wealthy and successful people are plutocrats. If Romney is, Carroll certainly is. The fishbowl is just smaller.

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