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« And here I thought it was me | Main | Safety »

Sep 17, 2012

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polifrog

There are multiple subsets of dependency.

One of those subsets of dependency is made up of those who pay no taxes.

It is hard to disagree with Romney when he says that a message of lowering taxes will not lure many of that 47%.

The American path to success is a hard sell to dependents.


Sean

familiar with ed mckay's on battleground? every single one of those hard working, full-time employees land within that 47% "dependent" stereotype, simply because they're not paid very much. the same goes for every full-time grocery worker, gas station attendant, receptionist, etc.

patronizing these people, our neighbors, with platitudes such as "The American path to success is a hard sell to dependents." is kind of sickening. low wage jobs are not a partisan issue. neither is unemployment... nor being old, for that matter.

if you want to blame someone for not ripping every penny out of the pockets of our lower class, blame gerald ford and ronald reagan -- the former created the EITC and the latter overhauled it to expand its reach.

Thomas

Seems like I remember reading about some financial event that might have pushed a lot more people into the no-federal-income-tax "subset" over the last few years. What the heck was that?

polifrog

99%,1%,47%

At least one number is close to reality.

Hartzman

FICA is the payroll tax.

When some say most do not pay federal income taxes,
like this 47% meme,
they are lying through their teeth,
because they don't count the payroll tax almost everyone pays.

That money goes to the same general fund
at the federal level and spent.
.
.
.
Meanwhile,

If each North Carolinian uses about 600 gallons of gas per year,
per person
and the gas tax is 38 cents per gallon,
which comes to about $228 per person,
do some not pay that tax?

is $228 2.28% of someone's $10,000 income
but 0.228% of someone's $100,000 income
or 0.0228% of someone's $1,000,000 income?
.
.
.
The "they" don't pay federal income taxes line
has been used by both sides.

In this case, if payroll taxes are included,
which they should be,
as the money goes to the same place
and gets spent by the same politicos
then Mr. Romney is really paying far less
than the average American.

Then add in gas taxes,
property taxes, both through home ownership
and via rents,
telephone taxes, energy taxes, licence fees, groceries,
and finally money printing, which makes everything more expensive
if there are more dollars in circulation.

Ishmael

Just when you thought he couldn't insult anyone else. Respect your elders Mitt!

Fec

Elmer Fudd is toast.

Hartzman

Our elders need to come to grips
with the fact that they have voted themselves benefits
there isn't enough money to pay for.

Ryan used to say that before he sold out.

Unless something unusual happens
the R's are going to go down on their own Super PAC sword.

Ishmael

"Our elders need to come to grips
with the fact that they have voted themselves benefits
there isn't enough money to pay for."

Agreed! The smart ones are not counting on just those funds to stay afloat, but with the tanking of the stock market and ageism in the workplace this is getting much more difficult to do. Therefore they are going to fight tooth and nail for their benefits.
If the world were fair, and hard work actually meant security, then Romney/Ryan might not have such a stinky load of crap to sell. Unfortunately conditions created by a race to the bottom on wages and benefits provided by employers has also created a need for government programs to survive. When are people going to wake up to this?

justcorbly

That "dependency" meme would at least have one finger in the land of reason if that 47 percent was mostly comprised of people who are working and, hence, pay payroll tax at a rate that at its minimum is larger than Romney's income tax rate.

The "dependency" slur is another misdirection gambit. The figure has to do with income tax, but the right deliberately conflates that with non-payment of all taxes.

So, I guess if you're a rich guy like Mitt running a company of the ethical caliber of Bain it is just fine to leverage every tax avoidance dodge you can find, but anyone who isn't rich who does the same thing is a moocher.

How long is it going to take to purge our culture of the poison of Ayn Rand?

Fec

Elmer Fudd is precisely the candidate the social retards deserve: bigoted, deceitful and monumentally stupid. What's more, it's proof there is a God and she has a wonderful sense of humor. The final humiliation will be Fudd's repudiation of his own party, which to anyone paying attention occurred last night. Suck it, morons.

bubba

"And I think Obama is a better candidate than Romney when it comes to the economy and my own narrow financial self-interest. Go figure."

And the Yahoo Chorus responds accordingly.

I get a kick out of Bozo the Clown and Gilligan calling someone "Elmer Fudd".

Fec

Actually, Rush Limbaugh said he may as well be Elmer Fudd. Bubba, Guarino, Davenport, Klan Frog, CP and the rest of the local losers will finally come to understand Jesus was gay and God is a liberal.

Fec

BTW Bob, I see you've stopped blogging. I guess it's just easier to let World Nut Daily to do it for you.

sittinginthemiddle.

Wow, you got all the part time hand out queens in a lather.

sittinginthemiddle.


"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney could be heard saying. "There are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it."- Mitt Romney

Obviously, the truth is a tough pill for the Parasites.

Thomas

"...who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it."- Mitt Romney

Someone else had something to say on this topic a while back.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

Hugh

If you include all persons who derive their main sustenance from the government teat including public sector workers the 47% is probably pretty close. If we give him a 5% margin of error he's spot on the money.

The others who fend for themselves and are still die-hard democrat voters shouldn't be pandered to either. Think about it, why the hell should a candidate waste money courting votes he's not going to get anyway?

Roch

"If you include all persons who derive their main sustenance from the government teat including public sector workers the 47% is probably pretty close." -- Hugh

Maybe, but it's not just the math, it's the failure of an ideology that casts all such people as unworthy parasites and makes no room for the good government does in sustaining people at certain times in their lives: retired people, veterans, active military, students, public servants, the poverty stricken and the unemployed. Why should a candidate "waste money" courting those votes? Uh, to win, if no other good reasons come to mind.

Dave Ribar

Hugh:

Gov. Romney went on to say "my job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

A candidate not courting votes is one thing. A potential President saying that half his constituents are not part of his job or worth his concern is quite another.

It's also not the first time that he has sliced and diced the income distribution and signaled that he doesn't care about the excluded group. "I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there."

CP(Worst Person on the Internet)


What does the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
have to do with the belief in a "right" to be provided health care, food, and housing at someone else's expense?


Kim

I'm still trying to figure out how to divide the electorate on socio-economic lines. Is Soros in the 47%?

Ian McDowell

My father voted for Obama, albeit reluctantly. He was a McCain supporter until McCain chose Palin (whom Dad considered "more batshit crazy than your first stepmother"), and even though he held his nose and voted for the Democratic candidate, he was leery of the hype surrounding him. Had he lived a few years longer than he, he might well have been considering voting for Romney, up until the past few months.

He was also one of the 47% in the last years of his life. The VA paid for his amputation and for physical therapy and then for the removal of a cancerous kidney. It paid for his hospice and for his headstone. Had the cancer not come back, the VA would have paid for the prosthesis on which he'd been waiting before other health issues loomed. During this time, he paid no income tax. He and his wife (my second stepmother) had their social security checks and she got disability following her retirement from the VA.

If sittinginthemiddle were a man, and were to suggest in my earshot that my father was a "parasite," I'd break her nose.

Patrick

I always wonder why the people who like to brag the most about how much they love America have such seething contempt for about half of Americans.

sittinginthemiddle.

"If sittinginthemiddle were a man, and were to suggest in my earshot that my father was a "parasite," I'd break her nose."- Ian


Big talk from a typical Parasite behind a keyboard. I suppose the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Spag

Watching you people complain about class warfare is comical considering Obama's masterful performance of that symphony.

Romney only vocalized something that both his pollsters and Obama's already know.

Andrew Brod

Dave, to me the most outrageous part of Romney's comments is not his indifference about getting the votes of the 47%, but his claim that the 47% don't "take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

Romney's comments certainly won't push away conservatives, many of whom, like SITM, agree with him. And I don't know if they'll push away any independents. But it won't help, and as a general rule, repeatedly shooting oneself in the foot is not a good campaign strategy.

CP(Worst person on the internet)

Sitting, I am assuming from context that Ian's Dad was a military veteran. Also, for all I or you know, he may have served active duty and/or his amputation may have been related to combat. For you to call him a parasite not knowing otherwise, identifies you as a piece of shit, which is somewhat lower on my heirarchy than a parasite.

Patrick

Romney's real problem is that he doesn't believe any of the stuff he's saying, so he uses the talking points wrong or mixes them up. He needs to devote a day or two to, "Message: I care."

Hugh

"My father voted for Obama"

So did both my parents. Being retired for decades surrounded by NE liberal halfbacks and a primary concern about prescription drug prices had something to do with it.

Mom hangs out with with a bunch of retired college prof ladies and dad hangs with crowd of old geezers who were either in WWII or Korea. I think it's going to be a split vote in their house this time.

Ed Cone

From those commies at National Review: "One thing that frustrates me is that many Republicans who’ve embraced the 'takers' interpretation of the fact that 46% of tax units didn’t pay federal income taxes forget why Republican policymakers of the past created policies like the EITC and the child tax credit in the first place."

Like the Akin rape comments, the problem for the Romney is not the reaction of liberals, the liberal media, liberal arts majors, etc., but the nature and content of the quote itself, and the facts that make the quote look awful to anyone who isn't sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting "I can't hear you."

Hugh

Fec: "The final humiliation will be Fudd's repudiation of his own party, which to anyone paying attention occurred last night. Suck it, morons."

I guess Romney is Fudd? In case you haven't noticed, the R party is fractured deeply. Romney's comments will get a lot of conservatives who are disgusted with his lack of conservatism off the fence and vote for him.

Between Romney's comments from last night and obama's 1998 "redistribution" audio the campaign is moving deeper into an ideological battle.

Spag

Again, I must note the comedy on display here as if Romney is the one who divided people into Us vs. Them when Obama has made that the central focus of his campaign.

If Romney did anything stupid, it's that this statement plays into Obama's class warfare narrative.

I also have to agree with CP's comment. If there is one group of people that the government does owe something to, it's veterans. Regardless, labeling all recipients of government aid as "parasites" is no less off the mark and unrealistic as labeling all "rich" people as being greedy, only in it for themselves, cheating, manipulative, and not holding up there own end.

Of course, that's probably way too much balance for most of the folks around here.

bubba

"I see you've stopped blogging."

I was afraid of ending up like you.

Hartzman

"I was afraid of ending up like you."

If taken as a group,
we are a pretty dysfunctional bunch.

Ged

Actually Andrew, a friend of mine who's parents are die hard conservatives just flipped to Obama because of Romney's comments this week. They told my friend that they can no longer support him since he has no concept of what the true middle class is going through. They don't see themselves as victims, and they were prepared to vote for Romney, but no longer. It matters.

Fec

Bubba, you have little to fear of becoming a dedicated pundit of the social retards. But that is consistent with the rest of your many fears, most of which are also baseless.

Andrew Brod

Ged, that's consistent with the fact that the most important and predictive survey question during presidential elections is: Does the candidate care about people like me?

Your friend's parents just gave their answer.

sittinginthemiddle.


"I think that what we're going to have to do is somehow resuscitate the notion that government action can be effective at all," Obama says. "I think the trick is figuring out how do we structure government systems that pool resources and hence facilitate some redistribution -- because I actually believe in redistribution, at least at a certain level to make sure that everybody's got a shot." Barak Obama


This is the answer according to the Far Left Loones we have in charge. They want to make everyone is equal, equally poor.

sittinginthemiddle.

"Actually Andrew, a friend of mine who's parents are die hard conservatives just flipped to Obama because of Romney's comments this week. They told my friend that they can no longer support him since he has no concept of what the true middle class is going through. They don't see themselves as victims, and they were prepared to vote for Romney, but no longer. It matters."- Ged

As if a die hard conservative would switch over something so trivial. But if you stay up late tonight you can catch the final episode of the cow jumping over the moon.

sittinginthemiddle.

"Sitting, I am assuming from context that Ian's Dad was a military veteran. Also, for all I or you know, he may have served active duty and/or his amputation may have been related to combat. For you to call him a parasite not knowing otherwise, identifies you as a piece of shit, which is somewhat lower on my heirarchy than a parasite."- CP

CP, get it straight. Ian placed his father into my post and imagined I was referencing him. When you misread something and then shoot your mouth off with the wrong opinion it gives a shining example of the moron that's inside. Apology accepted.

CP(Worst person on the internet)

"Typical Parasite" + "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" = "your old man is a parasite". At least own up to your own words, or was there some other logical relationship between those two phrases that somehow escaped me?

Spag

Bam.

Thomas

sittin = straight up troll

Ged

Sittin, yes they can when Romey's comments are just the latest in a long line that illustrate the fact that he does not now, nor in reality has he ever known what it's like to try and decide what bills to pay this month and which ones not to. To decide to go to the doctor for that minor ailment or rough it out at home. And yes, they ARE die-hard conservatives.

Even MY parents are having second thoughts and they wouldn't vote for Obama if you held a gun to their head. They are 80, retired and fall into that 47% Romney spoke about. They too however don't see themselves as victims of course, and resent the fact that he would say they were.

This was a major mistake for Romney.

polifrog

More Romney via Mother Jones:

Romney: [The] former head of Goldman Sachs, John Whitehead, was also the former head of the New York Federal Reserve. And I met with him, and he said as soon as the Fed stops buying all the debt that we're issuing—which they've been doing, the Fed's buying like three-quarters of the debt that America issues. He said, once that's over, he said we're going to have a failed Treasury auction, interest rates are going to have to go up. We're living in this borrowed fantasy world, where the government keeps on borrowing money. You know, we borrow this extra trillion a year, we wonder who's loaning us the trillion? The Chinese aren't loaning us anymore. The Russians aren't loaning it to us anymore. So who's giving us the trillion? And the answer is we're just making it up. The Federal Reserve is just taking it and saying, "Here, we're giving it." It's just made up money, and this does not augur well for our economic future. You know, some of these things are complex enough it's not easy for people to understand, but your point of saying, bankruptcy usually concentrates the mind.
Ian McDowell

My father's amputation was unrelated to combat; back in the 90s, doctors at the VA Hospital in Johnson City patched an artery in his leg with part of his carotid. They explained at the time that it was an operation that could only be done once, that the artery would most likely fail again in 10-15 years, and that when it did, he would probably lose his foot or even his lower leg. This was right after he'd suffered a series of strokes and TIAs -- there was one scary weekend where he thought I was the actor Rip Torn, with whom he'd served in the Army during the Korean War -- and I suspect they figured he probably wouldn't live enough for that to be a concern.

But he did, mentally clawing his way back from the 1950s, fully recovering from the strokes and even becoming pretty spry in his old age. Until the graft failed and they had to cut off his leg below the knee. He was on the waiting list for a prosthesis when they removed one of his kidneys but they didn't get all the cancer (of course, as my friend Doc the Biker Paramedic very gently pointed out to me at the time, people over sixty rarely survive an amputation by more than a year or two).

And Mrs. Riddleberger's claim that "Ian placed his father in my post" is as ludicrous as anything she's ever dared say under her own name, not that she's ever done that around here (which makes her sarcasm about "brave words" particularly rich). She was claiming that people who don't pay Federal Income Tax, who receive government assistance, and/or vote for Obama are "parasites." Since my father no longer owed Federal Income tax, was on Social Security, received free health care via the Veteran's Administration, and (in his words) "held my nose and voted for Barry," he qualified her vile and depraved definition of "parasite" on every count.

David Hoggard

Ian... So you are contending that SITM is Jodi Riddleberger.

I'd LOVE some proof of that.

Ed Cone

Thanks for speaking honestly about your father and his experience, Ian. You words show how ignorant Romney's sweeping generalization is, and why people are disgusted by his grotesque pandering.

A couple of thoughts: Calling out SITM is thoroughly justified. I've been thinking about the reasons I allow anonymity here, and there are some important ones, but providing cover for someone to lob outrageous and personally insulting remarks (and little else) is not one of them, so I may have to tighten up a bit on that front.

Also, "Haha u r gurl" may be an attempt to smoke out a hidden identity, but after a while it's just sexist itself. And I would bet a decent chunk of the income on which I pay higher marginal rates than Mitt Romney that SITM is not Mrs. Riddleberger, who seems considerably more literate and also evinces no shyness about maintaining a public identity.

Spag

Ed, you are confusing marginal rates with average rates. I am also willing to bet that Romney pays a higher marginal rate of income tax than you do, but his average rate may be lower if you include capital gains. But you and he both play by the exact same rules- the same tax brackets and the same tax rates on capital gains.

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