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« Post mortem | Main | Infinite jest »

May 09, 2012

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Billy Jones

Wow, what a great week for the N&R! Do you suppose they'll be writing on Trebic's 2006 suspension by order of the NC Secretary of State at the request of the NC Department of Revenue or will Binker beat them to the punch again?

Hartzman

How much would Roch have taken for the web site address?

How does the potentially obvious motive not indicate intent?

Hartzman

Is Roch suggesting the thought never occured to him?

It was in the top two things I thought as soon as I saw it.

Most others I spoke with about it agreed
that selling the site, hence taking the picture down
had to have occured to Roch.

Andrew Brod

Brilliant reasoning. Here's an alternative "intent" story. Roch's intent was to keep the picture up to tweak and keep tweaking Yow. It wasn't about making a buck; it was about being a pain in the ass.

So now we have two stories, George, your dumb one and my reasonable one. Why is mine reasonable while yours is dumb? Because mine is consistent with the facts and yours is mere speculation.

First, Roch is in fact a pain in the ass, as many can attest. In contrast, all you can do is speculate about his profit motive. Second, Roch didn't approach anyone about selling the site or taking down the picture, let alone for a price. In other words, he didn't do the one thing that could make this extortion. In contrast, you merely speculate about what "had to have occured" [sic] to him.

What the N&R did was unethical. If you fancy yourself a citizen journalist, George, it'd be good if you took a different path.

sal leone

I hope for this town that one day we get a paper that is not involved in politics. A paper that has no sides, tells the whole story. I like to see something like the NY Times, there is a reason it is a great paper.I learned a lot from my recent runs for office and that is papers pick their favorites and the rest can go to hell. The facts are hidden so certain candidates look good.

Andrew Brod

Dude, seriously, how are you ever going to get elected as a Republican if you go around saying things like "the NY Times is a great paper" and imply that it "has no sides, tells the whole story"?

Roch

"Is Roch suggesting the thought never occured to him?" Abner Hartzman Anonymous Nitwitter

No George, I said so affirmatively in my post. It's called a declarative statement. You should try it sometime. Here' I'll get you started, who are the "most others you spoke to?"

Roch

"First, Roch is in fact a pain in the ass, as many can attest. In contrast, all you can do is speculate about his profit motive." -- AB

Thank you Andy. Lest anyone think printing Yow's accusation was harmless, this is precisely why it was not. It gives fodder to feeble-minded defaming suspicions.

There is not, cannot, be one shred of of substance to support the suspicion that I tried to or expected to get anything from Yow. A few days after the article ran, I got a call from an attorney who said she represented Yow and wanted to know if I would sell the domain. My response was, I'd think about it if they wanted to make an offer -- after all, domain names have value and I am a free market capitalist. After talking it over with my wisest counsel, I came to a price in mind, but an offer never came and I never pursued it. This was all well after the article appeared and at the instigation of Yow's attorney, presumably at his direction. Which makes me no more of an extortionist than if I owned a lot on which BP wanted to build a gas station.

Hartzman

"A few days after the article ran,
I got a call from an attorney who said she represented Yow
and wanted to know if I would sell the domain.

My response was, I'd think about it if they wanted to make an offer
-- after all, domain names have value
and I am a free market capitalist.

After talking it over with my wisest counsel,
I came to a price in mind,
but an offer never came and I never pursued it."

There you have it Andrew.

Hartzman

Roch, did selling the domain ever occur to you
before the attorney called?

If you didn't...?

Roch

What

is

it you are

saying

trying

toomuchpot?

hartzman

I am saying if you put up the site and didn't think of selling it to billy, you are probably lying.

Mick

Hartzman,

Let's be clear. Are you onboard with the charge of extortion or not?

This shouldn't require your typical prose. Just one word or another. Which is it?

hartzman

From what i know of roch, probably.

Fec

I don't think Hartzman understands the definition of extortion.

Andrew Brod

I had hoped George was smarter than this.

On the bright side, I feel better about ignoring his incessant conflict-of-interest charges in other settings. Wolf! Wolf!

Hartzman

If it sounds like a duck...


"Extortion (also called blackmail, shakedown, outwresting, and exaction)
...occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services
from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion.

...The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense.

Making a threat ...which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property
to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense.

...in its formal definition, means the infliction of something such as pain and suffering
or making somebody endure something unpleasant.

...In extortion, the victim is threatened to hand over goods,
or else damage to their reputation or other harm ...against them may occur.

Under federal law extortion can be committed with or without the use of force
and with or without the use of a weapon.

A key difference is that extortion always involves a written or verbal threat
whereas robbery can occur without any verbal or written threat.

...Neither extortion nor blackmail require a threat of a criminal act, such as violence,
merely a threat used to elicit actions, money, or property from the object of the extortion.

Such threats include...revelation of damaging facts
(such as pictures of the object of the extortion in a compromising position), etc.

...extortion may also be committed as a federal crime across a computer system...

Extortion requires that the individual sent the message willingly and knowingly
as elements of the crime.

The message only has to be sent
(but does not have to reach the intended recipient)
to commit the crime of extortion.

Wikipedia
.
.
.
In common usage, blackmail is a crime involving threats to reveal substantially true or false information
about a person to the public, a family member, or associates unless a demand is met.

It may be defined as coercion involving ...threats
for the purposes of taking the person's money or property.

Blackmail may also be considered a form of extortion.

It is the use of threats to prevent another from engaging in a lawful occupation
and writing libelous letters or letters that tend to provoke a breach of the peace,
as well as use of intimidation for purposes of collecting an unpaid debt."

Hartzman

"I came to a price in mind"

What price was that Roch?
.
.
.
"I feel better about ignoring his incessant conflict-of-interest charges in other settings."

Like your bullshit feasability studies?

Hartzman

"Ho Chi Minh City police arrested a man for trying to bilk $1,860 from a Vietnamese business. The man who first tried to sell the domain name tonhoasen.com to Hoa Sen Group later built a fake company website on the domain name and was using the site to extort money from the company."

http://www.domainnamenews.com/legal-issues/vietnamese-arrest-man-for-domain-name-blackmail-scheme/1600

.
.
"Generally, people who find their mug shots on the web must pay significant sums to get their photos taken down. Some deem the payment akin to extortion: You have to pay huge sums to protect your reputation."
.
.
.
"An interesting case at work today, where a website owner got targeted by a company/individual who had registered a number of domain names relevant to them and was trying to sell them at £3000 a pop. As you can imagine, the website owner was quite concerned about this behaviour and wouldn’t you be?"

If you are based in the U.S. and the squatter is infringing your trademark, you can take the domain away from them. 15 U.S.C. § 1129(1)(A) states: “Any person who registers a domain name that consists of the name of another living person, or a name substantially and confusingly similar thereto, without that person’s consent, with the specific intent to profit from such name by selling the domain name for financial gain to that person or any third party, shall be liable in a civil action by such person."

If you’re not based in the U.S., you can notify the Office of Fair Trading or equivalent body that the company that has approached you is seeking to extort money from you using unethical practices."

http://www.u-g-h.com/2009/08/12/when-cybersquatters-try-the-extortion-game/

Ed Cone

Minority Report II: Precrime Investigation, starring Hartzman as Tom Cruise.

Hartzman

"Cybersquatting (also known as domain squatting), according to the United States federal law known as the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act, is registering, trafficking in, or using a domain name with bad faith intent to profit from the goodwill of a trademark belonging to someone else.

The cybersquatter then offers to sell the domain to the person or company who owns a trademark contained within the name at an inflated price.

The term is derived from "squatting", which is the act of occupying an abandoned or unoccupied space or building that the squatter does not own, rent, or otherwise have permission to use.

Cybersquatting, however, is a bit different in that the domain names that are being "squatted" are (sometimes but not always) being paid for through the registration process by the cybersquatters.

Cybersquatters usually ask for prices far greater than that at which they purchased it.

Some cybersquatters put up derogatory remarks about the person or company the domain is meant to represent in an effort to encourage the subject to buy the domain from them.

Others post paid links via Google, Yahoo!, Ask.com and other paid advertising networks to the actual site that the user likely wanted, thus monetizing their squatting."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting
.
.
.
Sound Familiar?


Andrew Brod

"Like your bullshit feasability studies?"

You're only saying that because you have a conflict of interest.

Andrew Brod

Minor point: I don't believe I've done a feasibility study.

But no matter. I'm sure I've intended to do one, and I'm sure it would have sucked.

Hartzman

Want to show your math
for the last three studies you did?

They never seem to show the math behind the amazingness
of the jobs and economic impact that will appear.

I hear the local municipalities
don't even trust what Don Jud sells anymore.

All to convince the population to take on more debt
so who ever paid for the farce study can walk
with everyone else's money.

How about the PAC study coming Andrew?

Did you recomend them?

They seem to be angling for revenue after the sale.

Objective city.

Hartzman

Who did the Science Center?

Mick

Better be very careful here Hartzman. There are other definitions in Wiki too. Try this one. L-I-B-E-L (enter).

Hartzman

Nothing like a good threat to start the afternoon Mick.
.
.
"That was the message presented by two University of North Carolina Greensboro Ph.D professors and a team of MBA graduates who conducted a feasibility study on the viability and affordability of a National Banjo Center in Eden.

Sheldon Balbirer and Andrew Brod informed a group of community leaders at the Eden Chamber of Commerce last week...

...Balbirer oversaw the branch of the study examining the viability of the proposed project, while Brod looked at the economic component.

...Brod estimated the total cost of establishing the center would be about $16.5 million.

He suggested the center would have a $270,000 impact on the local economy each year for the first five years open.

...“That’s hard data,” he said.


http://www2.godanriver.com/news/2010/jun/09/study_suggests_national_banjo_center_a_good_idea-ar-268507/?referer=http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CGgQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.godanriver.com%2Far%2F268507%2F&ei=xvGrT93-JcOltwfZspGiAg&usg=AFQjCNHhS3R2Ix-D5BljDRaT_6RBxx0jtg&shorturl=http://bit.ly/gIZwkQ

Mick

"They never seem to show the math behind the amazingness
of the jobs and economic impact that will appear." Hartzman

Have you seen any of these studies to which you refer?


Hartzman

"From "Economic Impact/Feasibility Committee Meeting
February 21, 2012 Meeting Minutes"

Charge to The Community Foundation of Greater Greensboro:
Create an open, candid and constructive dialogue around the needs of a performing arts center
Create an economic impact report and a feasibility analysis of a downtown facility
Explore private investors to complement public resources

...What the other benefits are to downtown/community

...Our committee should look at how other businesses benefit
from having GPAC downtown;

...Florence Gatten suggested utilizing the CVB on economic data
in regards to impact on the Hotel Occupancy Tax from a GPAC.

...Walker Sanders mentioned that Matt Brown
would be responsible for estimates regarding Operation costs of a GPAC;

...AMS Recommended by Andrew Brod

http://hartzman.blogspot.com/2012/03/from-greensboro-performing-arts-center.html

Mick

Not a threat. Just commentary.

I guess insinuations and accusations of wrong doing are a better way to start the day, huh?


Hartzman

I'm sorry Mick,
but to me, it looks like Roch was looking to profit.

Thomas

Has anybody seen that car commercial where the kids start riffing on some old rock song, then the whole family jumps in the sing the chorus? Just what is the name of that song?


Andrew Brod

Yep, I've done some good work. Thanks for pointing to a few examples, George. None of them were feasibility studies, but whatever.

As for the PAC, I've already addressed your conflict-of-interest logorrhea.

Hartzman

Andrew, how can AMS do an objective feasibility study
if they want to make money from the PAC
after it is up and running?

Why would the Greensboro Performing Arts Center Task Force hire the same guy to do both a feasibility study and a business plan?

Shouldn't a business plan for the PAC
come after the results of a non-biased study?

How can the same person in charge of the feasibility study
say "We are going to plan a new arts facility in Greensboro in 80 days,"
and maintain credibility at the same time?

I called AMS and asked how many PACs the company had found
not feasible.

No response.

I fear you have recomended a ringer.

Andrew Brod

Oh, one more thing. Regardless of what the GoDanRiver article said, I didn't estimate the cost of establishing the banjo center in Eden. I estimated the economic impact only.

Andrew Brod

"I fear you have recomended a ringer."

Yeah, I'm sure it's my fault.

Hartzman

No, it's the Greensboro Partnership's fault.

It's Robbie Perkins Fault.

It's the GN&R's fault for trying to sell thier parking lot.

It's everyone who stands to profit's fault
for wanting to charge everyone else
so they can transfer the wealth of many
into thier own pockets.

This thing was rigged from the start.

Remember any election platforms talking about a PAC?

Roch

Those are some pretty comprehensive definitions of extortion and cybersquating, George, none of which align with any facts in my case, but don't let that stop you from mistaking your hallucinations for thought.

Hartzman

...Neither extortion nor blackmail require a threat of a criminal act, such as violence,
merely a threat used to elicit actions, money, or property from the object of the extortion.

Such threats include...revelation of damaging facts
(such as pictures of the object of the extortion in a compromising position), etc.

...extortion may also be committed as a federal crime across a computer system...

...The message only has to be sent
(but does not have to reach the intended recipient)
to commit the crime of extortion."

Doesn's sound like any of the facts Roch?
.
.
.
...registering, trafficking in, or using a domain name with bad faith intent to profit from the goodwill of a trademark belonging to someone else.

The cybersquatter then offers to sell the domain to the person or company who owns a trademark contained within the name at an inflated price."

Did you register the name in bad faith Roch?

Whose web site do you run?

What price did you want?
.
.
.
"Some cybersquatters put up derogatory remarks about the person or company the domain is meant to represent in an effort to encourage the subject to buy the domain from them."

Anything derogetory at the domain?

Want to go through them one by one Roch?

Am I hallucinating?

Think you might want to appoligize at some point?

Roch

"Want to go through them one by one Roch?"

Yes. You keep repeating the definitions but provide no facts that align with them. So, yes, please, no more repating the defintions with out some facts, what are the specifcs facts that you think align with your accusations?

Thomas

GH-"Such threats include...revelation of damaging facts
(such as pictures of the object of the extortion in a compromising position), etc."

Putting the picture up on internet first sounds to me like getting the whole extortion thing backwards. But I've never extorted anyone, so what do I know?

Hartzman

What price did you want?

Roch

You don't get to keep asking questions, George, not until you answer mine. You have said you think I engaged in criminal activity and posted the definitions of those activities. Yet you have failed to cite a single fact that meets any criteron, much less the multiple criteria, of those definitions.

So, George, unless you are a lunatic liar or a pathetic idiot, cite the facts that substantiate your accusations. If you cannot, then shut the hell up and think twice before you come at me again with unfounded accusations. Capisci?

SAL LEONE

G.S 14-118.4 Extortion
The meat of this charge is simple, there must be a threat to another in order to obtain something. The way I read it here, it seems like a busiess deal that feel apart. I be upset to if the word extortist was used in public to describe me and there was no probable cause, as needed to charge someone in NC.

Sorry to Andrew, I always had the impression the NY Times was a fair paper, been years since I read it but much better paper then we have Guilford County

SAL LEONE

Sorry on the spelling but I mean fell apart rather then feel, had something else in mind,lol

cheripickr

I never thought I'd see the day that everyone including me would be sympathetic with Roch in a blogfight. Hartzman you are one strange cookie. Could it be that when the rest of us were growing up on Mad Magazine, you were being fed a steady diet of True Confessions?

tk solomon

i'm more curious than sympathetic when two guys get their weinies stuck in the same knothole.

cheripickr

Instant nasal coca-cola flush

Hartzman

"there must be a threat to another in order to obtain something."

Wasn't the threat was to leave the site up during an election
against someone who Roch was working for?

"there was no probable cause"

Where did I say what Roch did was illegal?

Unethical? Yes, and then some.

Probable Cause? = Motive?

To Cybersquat by taking someone's name
to make by far more in the process with a passive shakedown
while serving his master at the same time?

"lunatic liar or a pathetic idiot"

"shut the hell up and think twice
before you come at me again with unfounded accusations.

Capisci?"

Nice...

David Hoggard

He did the same to me some months ago, Roch.

The man is void of decency, logic and common sense in such matters. His delusions of grandeur and perceptions of a 'conspiracy behind every tree' are almost clinical and always tiresome.

However, his multi-topic, disjointed and rambling performances before Council every fortnight have become must-see-TV. Family and neighbors gather around their sets every other Tuesday with Coke and popcorn to watch the performance and the Council's reactions. High comedy with a touch of embarrassed cringing, because he obviously believes he is being taken seriously on every asinine point. He doesn't even notice all of the eye-rolling that he elicits from his audience, including Council.

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