April 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30    

« IFYI | Main | The missionary's position »

Mar 23, 2012

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Ed Cone

What reason is there to doubt that part of the story? I have not seen that detail questioned, much less shown to be false.

bubba

"What reason is there to doubt that part of the story? I have not seen that detail questioned, much less shown to be false.'

OK, then. We'll just ignore it, just like the race baiters/hysterics do with the information that undercuts their "white guy kills innocent black kid" meme.

How does that sound?

cheripickr

Bloggers formula for covering crime:
1. white on black crime: Scream racism. Blame conservatives, Tea Party, gun owners, Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum. Wring hands. Have respectful deep introspective national discussion=free for all blogfight. Rinse, lather, repeat.
2. black on white crime: silence
3. black on black crime: yawn
4. white on white crime: Tune in to Greta von Susteren

bubba

Did you notice how hard certain people (here, and elsewhere) tried to make Zimmerman a "white guy", cheri?

I guess the idea of "hispanic on black" crime just doesn't neatly fit in their various categories very well.

Andrew Brod

Yes, you're all having fun, and that's great. But I notice that no one has answered Ed's (and by extension, my) question? Are you claiming that Martin wasn't holding Skittles and tea? What was he holding?

Andrew Brod

The strawmen are as thick as thieves here. I don't recall anyone here "blaming conservatives" for what happened. If anyone's to blame, it's Zimmerman or it's Martin. A trial might help determine which. Not sure why you guys are against trials all of a sudden.

Also, Zimmerman's whiteness seems pretty irrelevant. You guys are making a big deal of his alleged non-whiteness (I won't confuse you with the fact that "Hispanic" is an ethnicity, not a race, and many Hispanics are white), but you might stop to notice that no one here is arguing with you about his Hispanic-ness.

But again, you're having fun, so on with it.

Ed Cone

CP has identified the real victims. Good thing, too, I was tired of hearing about that kid who got shot.

cheripickr

Me too, at least any more than the 45 people who are actually murdered on an average day in the US whose lost lives are apparently not tragic enough to be so newsworthy.

Andrew Brod

Now that's a demand a socialist can sink his teeth into: equal column-inches for all victims!

bubba

"A trial might help determine which. Not sure why you guys are against trials all of a sudden."

A trial would come as a result of an indictment, and preceded by an arrest. Not sure why you guys have an assumption of guilt for Zimmerman.

And by the way, a substantial majority of Hispanics are not "white". Neither is Zimmerman. You would have known that from reading any of the links I provided on the subject earlier, in response to the early attempts in this thread to paint Zimmerman as a white guy.

No one's arguing about his Hispanic-ness, because it draws away from the carefully crafted meme (the New York Times called Zimmerman a White Hispanic") that this is just another example of white-on-black crime, where "whitey gets off the hook because of intolerable raaaaaaaaaaacism!"

But then again, you're having fun at being wrong.

As usual.....

bubba

"Me too, at least any more than the 45 people who are actually murdered on an average day in the US whose lost lives are apparently not tragic enough to be so newsworthy."

I'm tired of hearing all the excuses and diversions from Cone and Arnold on this story.

polifrog

For some time I could find no source for the skittles and tea. It came across more as a part of the media tapestry than fact. There were no police accounts referencing either the skittles or the tea, nor have the articles referenced the source for the information.

Well, it seems the source was the attorney for the Martin family, so I can see why the source for the skittles and tea was left out of the story when it was relayed --- Tapestries and narratives trump fact in a media lynching.

What is sad about episodes like this is that the courts seem to be influenced by the incited. In one instance a guilty man may be set as free as OJ by the influence of the incited while in another an innocent man be incarcerated by the same. And aside from the obvious distortion of justice, in final analysis, the damage of false narratives remain within us, haunting society with the specter of racism that never was ... dividing us and wounding America.

bubba

"And aside from the obvious distortion of justice, in final analysis, the damage of false narratives remain within us, haunting society with the specter of racism that never was ... dividing us and wounding America."

Speaking of obvious distortions of justice, watch for Holder and henchmen/women to swoop in to make this a federal case.

Yes, I believe the Obama Administration is that stupid.....

Andrew Brod

"ABC News was there exclusively as the 16-year-old girl told Crump about the last moments of the teenager's life. Martin had been talking to his girlfriend all the way to the store where he bought Skittles and a tea. The phone was in his pocket and the earphone in his ear, Crump said."

If the police aren't going to interview the girlfriend who was talking to Martin as the events unfolded, then yeah, I guess it's up to the Martin family's attorney to tell people about the Skittles and tea.

Account Deleted

@Brod:"I won't confuse you with the fact that "Hispanic" is an ethnicity, not a race, and many Hispanics are white"

I think this gets closer to the heart of the matter. Making all Hispanics akin to illegal immigrants who have no place in our society is a core tenet of the modern right wing movement. I've quit using the word conservative because that use to require some intellectual capacity.

Small mindedness, blind ignorance and fear of "other" is not a conservative trait. It is a right-wing nationalist trait and that is what John Bob John represents behind their collective pseudonyms.

sal leone

I will have to say that some are using this incident as a right to carry arms and others are using race as the issue. The issue is not about the right to carry but about using the right, the race card is being played by some, he is either Hispanic or White.

The incident is about right and wrong and some are saying Zimmerman was right. I can not understand that, you mind others business, act like a cop, carry a gun when you are not suppose to as a watchman, disregard police instructions. I am not saying he set out to murder the kid but manslaughter might be a charge.
I am no lawyer and I thing Spag is and he can jump in on this. I dont think there is a jury member that could say they didn't hear anything on the news, where in America(change on venue) can you move this trial to.

Spag

"Is the conservative party line now that he was armed?...."

"The strawmen are as thick as thieves here. I don't recall anyone here "blaming conservatives" for what happened. If anyone's to blame, it's Zimmerman or it's Martin."

Andrew, you still need to work on the whole "I'm not ideological, I'm just telling it like it is" act.

I wasn't aware that there was a "conservative party line" on this incident. But true to form, you can put forth that division and then pull back when it is convenient. You know, jab, then move.

If there is a "conservative party line" it seems to be that we don't know what happened yet so those jumping to conclusions about hoodies, racism, Skittles, etc., should stop. You seem to agree with that after you throw your thinly veiled partisan jabs. Yet you write "Not sure why you (conservatives) guys are against trials all of a sudden."

Then there is the other narrative which is the one that actually is poised to skip the whole inconvenience of gathering facts and having a trial. That seems to be the one most associated with liberals attempting to exploit this matter. Your concern about the need for a trial is better directed there. But that would betray your ideological buddies.

So once again, you are all over the place contradicting yourself and trying to have it both ways with only one real goal in mind: attack conservatives.

We get it. It's old hat by now.

Spag

P.S. Andrew also writes "Also, Zimmerman's whiteness seems pretty irrelevant. You guys are making a big deal of his alleged non-whiteness"

This ignores the thunderously loud narrative of this being a racial incident by those making a big deal out of Zimmerman's "whiteness".

Yet previously Andrew actually claims (as he implies above) that conservatives are the ones making race an issue.

Unbelievable to anyone who is actually reading the news.

cheripickr

What is truly unbelievable is that Skittles have become a pivotol factor in our latest national discussion du jour. Carry on.

Andrew Brod

I should have said that the conservatives in this thread are the ones in this thread that are making a big deal out of Zimmerman's race. I don't keep up on what liberals overall are saying as much as you guys do.

And yeah, I'm not being ideological. It seems to me that when facts are in dispute, a trial is a good way to figure out what happened. That doesn't mean gathering facts is skipped; it means it's done. And if not for the public outcry in this case, it's hard to argue that it would be done.

It's not ideological to want the process to work, or at least it shouldn't be. But the strawman-rich conservative arguments in this thread against a trial have made it so.

Andrew Brod

It's actually not that hard to understand why the Skittles are relevant. If conservatives can get people to believe that what they'd been told, i.e. that the kid was carrying nothing but Skittles and tea, isn't true, then they can get them wondering what the kid was carrying.

I don't know that Martin was carrying Skittles rather than a gun. We could urge Florida to try the case and find the facts. Or we could smear the dead kid.

Ed Cone

I disagree with you, CP, about the relative newsworthiness of all killings.

Each is a tragedy, but some are part of bigger stories -- sometimes, multiple big stories -- than others.

This case seems to be one that invokes reaction on a number of hot-button issues.

I do agree that the cable newsing of the story is a bad thing.

And that is one of the reasons this thread (like others) gets complicated -- people focus on sensational but largely peripheral aspects and actors, making it all the harder to have a real conversation.

bubba

"Making all Hispanics akin to illegal immigrants who have no place in our society is a core tenet of the modern right wing movement."

How absurd......

Spag

"I don't keep up on what liberals overall are saying as much as you guys do."

So you are ignoring the suggestion of racial motivations in this thread posited by the reliable "liberals", while keeping up with the supposed implications of race (or non-race really) posited by the reliable "conservatives".

Either that or you're reading a different thread, Andrew.

It's funny how you can take the same wait and see attitude as "conservatives" have on this thread, yet still find fault with them for that very same attitude.

Like I said, the whole non-ideological/reasonable/middle of the road/it-just-so-happens-that-conservatives-are- always-wrong-when-matters-are-looked-at-objectively act needs a lot of work.

polifrog

Andrew:

It's actually not that hard to understand why the Skittles are relevant. If conservatives can get people to believe that what they'd been told, i.e. that the kid was carrying nothing but Skittles and tea, isn't true, then they can get them wondering what the kid was carrying.


You are the only one in this thread, possibly nationally, introducing the thought of an armed Trayvon. Why do you do that?

I just point out that a man encumbered by skittles in one hand and tea in the other better fits the failing media narrative of Treyvon being attacked. That it seems to be sourced to the family attorney whose bias is toward filling Trayvon's idle hands should be questioned, but it is not. Instead it is embraced as part of the narrative.

Alternatively police reports indicate that Zimmerman was on his way back to his car when he was jumped and beaten not by a man with skittles in one hand and tea in the other, but by a man using his hands as weapons.

We should not be surprised that the Matin family's attorney might wish to fill Trayvon's idle hands and that that information might comport with the narrative of our selectively inquisitive media.

polifrog

If you wonder why I question the skittles and tea...

The comments to this entry are closed.