April 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30    

« Lawyering up | Main | Fun while it lasted »

Mar 01, 2012

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Ron

The YWCA site is good for a small PAC. If they want to build a large facility, that site may not work. The city parking lot across from the Melvin Municipal Office Building might work because it would be close to the Carolina Theatre. When you combine a 700 car new PAC parking deck and the 700 car Greene St deck nearby, that takes care of parking needs. Its the same case with the News & Record lot which is only two blocks away from the Greene St Deck.

A PAC at the South Elm/Lee site would help spur more businesses south of the railroad tracks but the perception of the area could become a problem. The location on North Elm is a good site. Its located across from the Bellemeade parking deck and the Marriott hotel is nearby but that site is actually multiple sites owned by different entities. That could be a challenge. My favorite is still the News and Record parking lot because it would generate activity on a dead part of Washington and Church Street.

Ron

Wait a minute. I just realized that the county wants to build a parking deck on the city parking lot across from the Melvin Municipal Office Building on Washington St for the jail. If that happens, that cancels that site out for a PAC. If the county builds its deck on the YMCA lot, a PAC could be built there and there would be two parking decks within two blocks. The problem is that is a bad site to help spur development.

sittinginthemiddle

The real problem is the Alice in wonderland idea that we even need this travesty, when will this council focus on jobs instead of more Rich People Toys?

Ron

revitalizing our downtown helps lead to jobs. When companies look at an area, they want to see what the city has to offer.

Hartzman

I heard several times today
that the YWCA gets the honorable mention,
but is not on the short list
or anywhere near so.

All roads lead to the News & Record site.

Robin Saul is on the Greensboro Partnership's Board
and was a "Strategic Plan" study participant
along with Roy Carroll and Zack and Jim Kee and Jim Melvin.

(From Memory Because they Won't Release the Study)

With Betty Cone, Walker Sanders, Randall Kaplan, Ed Wolverton,
Donna Newton, Marsh Prouse, A Linder and Monty Hagler.


H. Walker Sanders, Richard L. Moore, Susan S. Schwartz
J. Edward Kitchen, Deborah Hooper and a bunch of lawyers.

I believe the whole thing was rigged from the beggining
to sell the News & Record Lot to the city
with more debt for our children to pay off.

Remember that the hotel got two feasibility studies done?

One for the city that said it wouldn't work,
and another for the developers which said it would
will completely unrealistic assumptions
which I have documented that was never reported.

I believe this thing is completely rigged.

Hartzman

"...the differences between two hotel studies created within 30 days by the same company.

The first, commissioned by the City of Greensboro, dated Jan. 18, 2010, suggested the project wasn’t feasible.

The second, paid for by the developers, dated Feb. 16, 2010 said it was.

The first study said average food and beverage revenues for comparable downtown hotels in large cities ranged from $75.54 to $92.28.

The second study projected food and beverage revenues of $169.29 per room, about 4.4 times more than the Downtown Marriott and twice the original estimate, for a hotel surrounded by restaurants, night clubs and a ballpark."

Hartzman

So what is happening here
is that the city is letting those who want the PAC
to commission the study.

I also read the city is going to help pay for it.

Could the News & Record top brass
believe that since they control the information
they can sell everyone a bridge with a probably bogus study?

sittinginthemiddle

They still have to get this by the Taxpayers and I don't think it will happen. I will certainly put forth as much effort as possible to help defeat it.

prell

sittinginthemiddle = Leon Nutez

Hartzman

"sittinginthemiddle = Leon Nutez"

Casual insult?

Does insult equal insecurity?

Address the Issue prell.

Ed Cone

As the post title says, location, location, location.

The N&R site has much to recommend it on that essential point.

prell

"Casual insult?"

Oh, so you're sittinginthemiddle. My bad. I should've known better.

As for the location? Any of them suit me fine and all are within walking distance from our home.

Billy Jones

Ron, "revitalizing our downtown helps lead to jobs. When companies look at an area, they want to see what the city has to offer."

Greensboro is currently in its 3rd downtown revitalization in my lifetime and I'd like to see some proof that any of it has worked for anyone other than downtown developers.

And Ron, just so you and your bosses know, I've got over 1700 readers while the PAC Facebook page has 56.

I haven't begun to fight.

Brian

What does Ross Harris mean when she says that they've been looking at sites a long time? Who is we? That being said, nice to see that many of the sites mentioned here in earlier discussion are at the forefront for consideration. I'd like to hear some clearer goals and objectives for picking a site, but I recognize there will be many factors in picking a site - but that process must be transparent. Matt Brown is smoking crack if he thinks it needs that much space. Is he only looking at outdated suburban models surrounded by acres of surface parking? If the Task Force doesn't head David Wharton's call to consider distributed parking, then, this project could be a downtown killer. The N&R and South Elm sites are superior. I do not get what the N&R says when the South Elm site is far from downtown's club and restaurant district - guess they don't eat at The Sweet Shop, Mellow mushroom, Table 16, or the new Worx and Mexican restaurant coming on board, or go to the Broach, Artistika, Studio B or Elsewhere...

Hartzman

"As for the location? Any of them suit me fine and all are within walking distance from our home."

Feasable or not?

In DPAC's case, they then had to bail out
thier version of the Carolina Theater.

We need 50,000 manufacturing jobs.
.
.
.
"If the Task Force doesn't head David Wharton's call to consider distributed parking, then, this project could be a downtown killer."

Agreed.

"I do not get what the N&R says when the South Elm site is far from downtown's club and restaurant district"

Wrong restaurants owned by the wrong people.

This isn't about broad based growth.

This is about rent seeking.

prell

"Feasable or not?"

You mean feasible. I really don't care, Hartzman. My wife and I make a habit of traveling long distances for lots of concerts. We never grew up! Live music can be fun. It would be nice to have some shows that are within walking distance.

"Wrong restaurants owned by the wrong people."

What restaurants are you referring to, Hartzman? Define "wrong people." Specifics aren't your strong suit, but I hope you're provide.

Hartzman

"feasible. I really don't care"

Presented without comment.

"The Sweet Shop, Mellow mushroom, Table 16, or the new Worx and Mexican restaurant coming on board, or go to the Broach, Artistika, Studio B or Elsewhere..."

are owned by some other than those promoting the bonds
as mentioned above, amongst others.

Ed Cone

George, you are impugning the motives and decency of a lot of people. I am not finding this broad-brush approach compelling. A large group is working hard for positive reasons on a project they believe will mean something great for the city they love. Oppose the project? Fine. But this is getting tiresome.

Billy Jones

Ed wrote: "A large group is working hard for positive reasons on a project they believe will mean something great for the city they love."

True, but that hard working group is being misled by a few who stand to make huge profits from this deal. If the motive of those at the top were Greensboro as a whole and not their own profits they would add the rest of the city to their "feasibility study."

Ed Cone

Oh, never mind then. And here I naively thought the N&R site had merits of its own.

Hartzman

"George, you are impugning the motives and decency of a lot of people."

Then why won't the Greensboro Partnership release the study
behing the Strategic Plan?

I apologize to those being led on.

But the way this thing is being sold stinks.

Robin Saul is on the board and was a participant in the study.

Do you see any problem with that Ed?

Roy, Randall and Landmark look to do very well on this.

Roy was on the board at the same time
he was a study participant that was sold as non-biased.

Marsh Prouse was a Robbie supporter
and the moderator of the News & Record debate.

Some of these folkes want everyone else to pay for what they want
for themselves.

This is Crony Capitalism.

Do you not see that?

ron

I think clearly the proposed "Wyndham Hotel" is a lot more feasible if the performing arts center is built nearby. The News & Record site is literally across the street from the proposed hotel. Clearly some of the entertainment you'll find at a performing arts center fits the demographics of upscale hotel guests. At the same time, I don't think the PAC will be a toy just for the rich. The facility will host a variety of productions, many of which will be family oriented. The News & Record lot is also one of the top sites for other reasons. The site is across the street from the bus and train station, restaurants and Triad Stage on South Elm Street are within walking distance and the 700 car Greene Street parking deck is two blocks away. When you combine the Greene street deck with a new parking deck, there would be enough parking for the performing arts center. Lastly the News & Record site could serve as a cultural anchor on the south end of Church Street.

My gut tells me this facility is going on the News & Record parking lot.

ron

BTW, as far as the location for a new parking deck, the parking lot at the southeast corner of Davie and Washington Streets at the Depot is a great location. The city already owns the parking lot, a deck there would be across the street from the PAC on the News & Record lot and the parking lot is also close to businesses and restaurants on South Elm Street.

David Hoggard

When it comes to any kind of development downtown (and most anything else for that matter), George sees a conspiracy behind every tree. Problem is, there aren't enough trees downtown of sufficient girth to hide all of his conspiracies.

By his measure, should you have an actual financial stake in any future development downtown, you should not be allowed to participate in decisions or processes that might have bearing on your stake.

Tiresome indeed.

Andrew Brod

We need a monastery of feasibility-studying monks.

Wait, that's sexist. We'll take strategic-planning nuns too!

Thomas

What we need is a plan to build this PAC in which nobody makes any money. Then we'll know it's on the up and up.

Billy Jones

David wrote, "By his measure, should you have an actual financial stake in any future development downtown, you should not be allowed to participate in decisions or processes that might have bearing on your stake."

Problem is: The rest of Greensboro isn't/wasn't/hasn't been invited to the discussion and we too, have a stake that is quickly being whittled away.

As far as I'm concerned, downtown can build anything they like but when their likes require the rest of Greensboro's tax dollars then every Greensboro neighborhood-- especially those neighborhoods with the least-- should be the recipients of those Greensboro tax dollars. Put the jobs where the people who need them most live!

bubba

"Problem is: The rest of Greensboro isn't/wasn't/hasn't been invited to the discussion and we too, have a stake that is quickly being whittled away."

Stop making sense, Billy. It's not allowed in discussions of this nature, particularly when our betters conveniently have already made the decision about what's going to happen on this issue.

Hartzman

"When it comes to any kind of [taxpayer funded] development downtown (and most anything else for that matter), George sees a conspiracy behind every tree."

I have presented facts David.

You seem to have presented myth.

"should you have an actual financial stake in any future [taxpayer funded] development downtown, you should not be allowed to participate in decisions or processes that might have bearing on your [personal profit] stake."

With everyone else's money.

What is wrong with America David?

We have a few who want to profit
from transfering the wealth of many.

We have information outlets
in on the take.

Big Media love Super PACs.

Where do you think their profitability is coming from
other than pharmacutical and financial ads?

Greensboro is the same thing only different.

Billy Jones

Sorry Bubba, I forgot I was always supposed to do as Greensboro's elders rich elite tell me to do. I promise it won't ever happen again for at least 10 minutes or so.

Brian

George - All I see you doing is playing Six degrees of separation - easy to do in a town of Greensboro's size. While it may be true that boosters of downtown may also benefit from an increase in value of their property or revenues at their business, you haven't proven that these people are only driven by a profit motive. (And, I'm not even sure why being driven by profit is a bad thing anyways.)

sittinginthemiddle

" revitalizing our downtown helps lead to jobs. When companies look at an area, they want to see what the city has to offer."

Hogwash! The amount of capital that has been wasted on Elm St is a joke. It is nothing more than a bar district and never will be. Since inception this whole downtown revitalization has been a sham to milk the taxpayers for the benefit of certain individuals in Greensboro. They can't fill the War Memorial Auditorium to capacity yet they are sreaming for a bigger and better venue. Show me one company that has come to Greensboro because of the Coliseum, Aquatic Center, War Memorial, Carolina Theatre,or any other music/entertainment venue. If you ever ran a business you would understand those decisions are based on profit, not entertainment. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We lose money on all the city owned entertainment venues, building a bigger and better one will only escalate the failure.

David Hoggard

You have not presented facts, George. You have presented conspiracy theories.

Billy Jones

Thomas wrote, "What we need is a plan to build this PAC in which nobody makes any money. Then we'll know it's on the up and up."

You mean like the Greensboro Coliseum Complex?

Hartzman.blogspot.com

"You have not presented facts, George.
You have presented conspiracy theories."

Facts or conspiracy David?:

Robin Saul is on the Greensboro Partnership's Board
and was a "Strategic Plan" study participant
along with Roy Carroll and Zack and Jim Kee and Jim Melvin.

(From Memory Because they Won't Release the Study)

With Betty Cone, Walker Sanders, Randall Kaplan, Ed Wolverton,
Donna Newton, Marsh Prouse, A Linder and Monty Hagler.
H. Walker Sanders, Richard L. Moore, Susan S. Schwartz
J. Edward Kitchen, Deborah Hooper and a bunch of lawyers.

True or false David?

The Greensboro Partnership (Danahey)
who I believe was a study participant)
refuses to release the study behing the Strategic Plan.

True or false David?

Roy, Randall and Landmark look to do very well on this.

Roy was on the board at the same time
he was a study participant that was sold as non-biased.

Marsh Prouse was a Robbie supporter
and the moderator of the News & Record debate.

True or False David?

Hartzman.blogspot.com

Performing Arts Center: "[Notable]...Task Force Members"

Betty Cone
Mac Sims
Randall Kaplan
Richard Beard
Roy Carroll
Susan Schwartz
...hire nationally recognized consultant
to review past studies and assess current market conditions.
Donna Newton, co-chair
Daniel Craft
Julie Lapham
Marsh Prause
Ray Trapp
Kathy Manning
George House
Henry Frye
Denise Turner Roth
Donna Newton
Ed Wolverton
Ken Mayer
Matt Brown
Monty Hagler
Ross Harris

Notable Robbie Perkins 2011
Campaign Contributors:

Betty Cone
Susan Schwartz
Samet - had a representative on the study thing.
Randall Kaplan
David Craft
Joseph Gorga - Study Group
Charles Hagan - Study Group?

Ross Harris - Campaign Manager
.
.
Jim Kee 2011 Campaign Contributors

Don Linder - Study Group?
Jim Melvin - Study Group
Henry Isaacson - Study Group
Mac Sims
Robbie Perkins
Zack Matheny
David Craft
Ralph Shelton - Study Group?
Nancy Vaughan
.
.
Nancy Vaughan

Jim Melvin
Florence Gatton - Study Group?
Ross Harris
David Craft
Sue Schwartz
Daniel Craft
Charles Hagan III
.
.
Yvonne

Betty Cone
Henry Frye
Ralph Shelton
Charles Hagan III
Don Linder
Jim Melvin
Robbie Perkins

Notice any similarites David?

Hartzman.blogspot.com

Nancy Hoffman

Susan Schwartz
Tim Rice - Study
Henry Isaacson - Study and Roy's attorney.
Samet
.
.
.
Zack

Susan Schwartz
Richard Beard
Chip Hagan
David Hagan
Henry Isaacson
Jim Melvin
.
.
Prior years

NANCY VAUGHAN 09/23/09 Randall R. Kaplan
JIM KEE 10/27/09 Alvin C. Leonard Jr.
JIM KEE 10/27/09 Roy E. Carroll
JIM KEE 10/27/09 Vanessa Y. Carroll
LINDA SHAW 03/23/10 Roy Carroll II
ROBBIE PERKINS 10/13/09 Roy E. Carroll II
ROBBIE PERKINS 10/19/09 Vanessa Y. Carroll
TRUDY WADE 10/23/09 Alvin C. Leonard Jr.
TRUDY WADE 10/23/09 Roy E. Carroll II
TRUDY WADE 10/23/09 Vanessa Y. Carroll
ZACK MATHENY 10/23/09 Alvin Leonard
ZACK MATHENY 11/07/07 Alvin Leonard
ZACK MATHENY 10/23/09 Roy Carroll II
ZACK MATHENY 10/23/09 Vanessa Carroll
ROBBIE PERKINS 10/22/07 Alvin C. Leonard
ZACK MATHENY 09/13/07 Susan Schwartz
ZACK MATHENY 07/30/07 Charles Hagan III
ROBBIE PERKINS 10/18/09 David B. Hagan
ROBBIE PERKINS 09/16/07 David Hagan
ZACK MATHENY 08/03/07 Henry Isaacson
ZACK MATHENY 08/03/07 Marc L. Isaacson
ZACK MATHENY 07/30/07 Jim Melvin
ZACK MATHENY 09/13/07 Susan Melvin
JIM KEE 08/28/09 Henry Carrison
JIM KEE 10/27/09 Robbie Perkins
JIM KEE 10/27/09 Robbie Perkins
ROBBIE PERKINS 10/01/07 Henry Carrison IV
ROBBIE PERKINS 09/16/09 Henry G. Carrison IV
DIANE BELLAMY-SMALL 10/16/2007 Roy E and Vanessa Y Carroll
Kirk Perkins 5/2/2008 Roy E and Vanessa Y Carroll
Paul Gibson 5/2/2008 Roy E and Vanessa Y Carroll
ROBBIE PERKINS 10/16/2007 Roy E and Vanessa Y Carroll
TRUDY WADE 10/16/2007 Roy E and Vanessa Y Carroll
YVONNE JOHNSON 10/16/2007 Roy E and Vanessa Y Carroll
ZACK MATHENY 10/16/2007 Roy E and Vanessa Y Carroll
ROBBIE PERKINS 09/28/09 Arthur Samet
NANCY VAUGHAN 09/18/09 Arthur Samet
NANCY VAUGHAN 05/27/09 Norman Samet
NANCY VAUGHAN 05/27/09 Sylvia Samet
ROBBIE PERKINS 10/01/07 Norman G. Samet
ROBBIE PERKINS 10/28/09 Norman Samet
ZACK MATHENY 08/06/09 Arthur Samet
ZACK MATHENY 04/30/07 Arthur Samet
LINDA SHAW 03/24/10 Richard Beard
ROBBIE PERKINS 09/21/07 Richard Beard
ZACK MATHENY 08/10/09 Richard Beard
ZACK MATHENY 09/13/07 Richard Beard
ROBBIE PERKINS 10/11/09 Richard Beard
ZACK MATHENY 07/06/07 Charles E. Melvin Jr.
ZACK MATHENY 07/06/07 Charles E. Melvin Jr.

Anything David?


Hartzman.blogspot.com

The board of directors of the Greensboro Chamber Foundation,
which Gave the Quarter Cent Tax Committee $10,000

Deborah Hooper
Dan Lynch
Jim Melvin
Susan Schwartz
Ralph Shelton
Steve Bowden
Denise Turner
Richard Moore
Patrick Danahy
Charles Hagan
Tim Rice

1/4-Cent Makes Sense Steering Committee

Steve Bowden
Pat Danahy
Roy Carroll
Shirley Frye
Henry Isaacson
Skip Alston


Greensboro Partnership Board Members (partly publicly funded),
which gave the Quarter Cent Tax Committee $10,500.

Mr. Arthur Samet
Mr. Roy E. Carroll III
Ms. Deborah L. Hooper
Mr. Randall Kaplan
Mr. Kenneth C. Mayer Jr.
Mr. Jim Melvin
Mr. Charles E. Melvin Jr.
H. Walker Sanders
Mr. Robin Saul
Mr. Richard L. Moore
Mr. R. Steve Bowden
Ms. Susan S. Schwartz
Mr. J. Patrick Danahy, Greensboro Partnership President & CEO
Ms. Shirley Frye


Anyone?


Brian

So what George? Six degrees, like I said. You are speculating on conspiracy based on this, but it is implied with no proof. You'll need a little more than that to demonstrate proof.

Ed Cone

George, the strong link you imply between campaign contributions and, uh, something rotten is not convincing to me.

By that standard, your status as a paid employee of a major financial institution calls into question everything you write about business and economics.

Hartzman.blogspot.com

"the strong link you imply between campaign contributions and, uh, something rotten is not convincing to me."

Ed, I believe this is a big reason why
Greensboro and Guilford County are bleeding jobs.

If a business is looking to relocate or bring high paying jobs here
they see this and try to find a ethical place to do business.

Ever heard of "follow the money"

btw...thank you for letting me post it.

"your status as a paid employee of a major financial institution calls into question everything you write about business and economics."

Agreed.

I also teach financial ethics
as an outside business activity.

They tend not to mix well.

I try to leave as many better off
for my having existed.
.
.
"You are speculating on conspiracy based on this,
but it is implied with no proof.

You'll need a little more than that to demonstrate proof."

This is a symtom of a disease.

Why won't the Partnership release the study?

We need to get targeted campaign contributions
out of local politics.

We have Council Members soliciting business owners
for campaign cash
knowing they have business before council.

As long as we have empathy for this kind of fascism,
Greensboro won't be able to compete for good paying jobs.

Manufacturing jobs.

Not ushers and waiters.

Why not ban contributions from those with business
before council?

Seems simple enough.


Brian

I give up George. Direct evidence of proof would have sufficed, but you are still in conjecture mode. Good thing you are in finance (I think) and not in the legal profession, because your standard of proof is pretty weak.

David Hoggard

Listing names of people who choose to get involved in planning things proves nothing toward you silly accusations.

Not much different from when you accused me of having ulterior motives for supporting such and such candidates simply because I was a subcontractor for a city project once that happened to be funded by a city bond. I thought I was fortunate to have landed the business, you implied that I was a crook.

Your "connect-the-conspiratorial-dots" penchant for impugning anyone who has done anything of substance in the public realm is just plain wrong-headed.

Thomas

Billy - "You mean like the Greensboro Coliseum Complex?"

Yeah, I wish the Coliseum would just disappear. But not until after this weekend. I plan to be there watching some very talented young ladies play basketball.

Hartzman.blogspot.com

"...you are still in conjecture mode.
Good thing you are in finance (I think) and not in the legal profession,
because your standard of proof is pretty weak."

I have taught the NC Bar Association Ethics Component.

I currently teach the NC CPA Ethics Component.

How do you think this has been able to go on for so long?

If there was no gray here for whatever to happen,
it probably wouldn't have happened.
.
.
I would assume David does not want me to bring up
past issues, as you have mouths to feed etc...

So I will refrain.


Hartzman.blogspot.com

btw...

It is my understanding that Robbie Perkins was the listing agent for the land where the parking lot is going.

http://hartzman.blogspot.com/2012/03/it-is-my-understanding-that-robbie.html#more

Sorry about not remembering how to do the link thing.

Works this way at Joe's.

Roch101

It is my understanding it was in the library with the lead pipe.

David Hoggard

Bring up whatever you please, George.

For a teacher of ethics, you seem to have forgotten your subject matter.

Ron

There could be a way to build this performing arts center with some public funds without voter approval....This was how Durham got their venue built. The city used something called certificates of participation

http://99blocksmagazine.com/performing-arts-center-cant-we-just-bypass-voters.aspx

Billy Jones

Ron, as usual you've dropped the ball. We all knew about certificates of participation over a week ago. They're even mentioned in the GPAC Survey

How much do they pay you for such sloppy work?

Note to Ron's boss: Whatever you're paying him is too much.

The comments to this entry are closed.