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« Feeling no pain | Main | Please let this happen »

Jan 22, 2012

Comments

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Dave Ribar

A few people have mentioned something about an empty spot that needs filling in the Golden Gate shopping center.

sean

yikes, i'd rather have a PAC at the colosseum than at GG. how about the corner of market and davies, where rumba latina sits? i know there were rumors of a hotel to be built there a while back, but if not, there's parking right across the street, as well as CCP...

Ed Cone

I'm guessing that suggestion was in jest, as GG is not downtown...

The Davie St site is great in terms of location, but is there enough space there, and how much would it cost?

S Elm and Lee seems to offer some real advantages on price and size, and the location is good too.

Brian

Adjacent to the Import-Export Building, anywhere in the block between S. Eugene and Freeman Mill on the north side of Lee. st. (Brooks Lumber, Habitat warehouse, car dealership), the Greensboro Housing Authority site on the corner of S. Eugene and Lee St., the site of Kindley's on MLK, the News & Record lot across from the Depot (where they hold their Flea Market, the Guilford Schools site between Spring and Edgeworth. South of Market would appear ideal to me from the more rational connection to visitors coming to downtown from out of town traveling in on High Pt. Rd or Lee St.

Brian

Two other places that should be considered: the YWCA building in conjunction w/the Festival park site, or the soon to be vacant Greensboro Transity Authority site between E. Friendly and E. Market between Church and the railroad.

michele

Brian, good sites, but a lot of them seem small. I'm envisioning a downtown arts center as a fairly large building, but maybe I'm wrong about that? Also, what about parking? Would it need its own parking? If so (large building + parking), there aren't many places to put it. Elm and Lee looks good.

Triadwatch

Parking is going to be a issue but if they wanted to use satellite parking then bus people to downtown before and after major events then having a place near the transportation terminal is very feasible. Walk a few blocks to eat amd take in the event then get back on bus to car then home. The best place to me is the news and record property.

Ernie McCracken

"The best place to me is the news and record property."

Terrible idea. I'd always hoped that Triadwatch would open up its world headquarters in that location. Maybe go print?

Sue

Given the comparison to the DPAC, a good performing arts center venue would have to include easy parking garage access with GREAT in/out speed, walking to food and shops because people actually go out for dinner or lunch before/after shows, and a way to get a bus or two to drop off and pick up. Then you have to add in the requirements of theater (loading docks for sets and equipment and a place to put the trucks) and a feeling of space that encourages people to come early and roam (and spend money). Of course, a nearby hotel would be nice but isn't required. So although I love the Carolina Theatre, the space may not be there.

One issue is that out of towners need to be able to find the place easily (close proximity to an interstate seems reasonable). Add it all up and figure out where it gets you. We're talking about a *major* use of land, space, supporting businesses and traffic flow. Not an easy decision and I certainly don't have an answer. Just considerations.

Brian

It's hard to get a handle on parking - I don't think it's quite the issue you would think it would be. Remember the City is contemplating a new parking deck as is the County. Parking has never stopped any city I know of from moving forward with urban infill projects and it is the number one wrong reason to locate it somewhere. You locate it in the right place and THEN figure out the parking.

As far as size, I'm really not certain the size of a PAC that is being considered and what its corresponding surface footprint would be. So, first, let's make a determination on the number of seats desired/needed. Then get that into the hands of an architect who can give us an idea of what size building we need, THEN configure that size building onto the preferred site. Lastly, figure out parking.

If you start with parking needs, you'll end up with a rationale that puts the PAC at Friendly, Four Seasons, the Coliseum or the Carolina Circle.

Ed Cone

Sue's parameters make the S Elm/Lee site sound good.

Billy Jones

As Sue so aptly pointed out with "...the requirements of theater (loading docks for sets and equipment and a place to put the trucks) and a feeling of space that encourages people to come early and roam (and spend money)" there really is no space in downtown Greensboro to build a performing arts center. An ample performing arts center like Sue describes would require a footprint the size of the News & Record property or more.

But about 1 and 1/2 miles to the east of downtown Greensboro are empty warehouses and industrial buildings with acres of parking and easier access to major highways. Then new start-ups and hotels could be built around the performing arts center creating a second downtown area not unlike many world class cities.

But alas, the east is not the part of town where Greensboro's movers and shakers invested their real estate dollars. No, they bought up downtown. That is, except for our Mayor who's real estate portfolio includes property all over Greensboro and beyond.

Billy Jones

But, if the News & Record continues doing poorly...

Ed Cone

No space downtown? 6+ empty acres at Murrow and Lindsay, 7 city-owned empty acres at Elm and Lee.

Triadwatch

I hear ha emc but when we have Matt brown wanting to add to his fiefdom along with partner mayor Perkins. Watch and see the coliseum numbers will work but Downtown numbers will not work

Ernie McCracken

"I hear ha emc but when we have Matt brown wanting to add to his fiefdom along with partner mayor Perkins. Watch and see the coliseum numbers will work but Downtown numbers will not work"

I know. Keep fighting the good fight. We are the real victims. We are the 99 percent. We are the victims of Melderec con Simkins and corrupt machine poli....oh get a life, dude.

Brian

I think it would be wrong to start with a comparison to DPAC. That is but one venue in one town. Sue - you mentioned some interesting criteria, but again I think we get ahead of ourselves. There are Performing Arts Centers all around the country that are situated into areas with much more significant constraints than our own downtown presents.

It's premature to throw darts at a potential downtown PAC location due to preconceived limitations. If we are to follow the Downtown Consolidated Plan, then we (as a city) have already committed to having a PAC downtown. Let's not muddy the waters by throwing outlying locations like the Coliseum into the mix. It's a horribly misguided way to plan for this facility. Yes, the numbers (costs)are important, but not the only consideration.

Let's pick a site downtown, run the costs, and figure out whether we want to fund it publicly, privately or some combination of both.

Ed - I don't think the plans at S.Elm/Lee include space for a PAC, but on the other side of the tracks at Eugene sits a vacant Greensboro Housing Authority building and a City of GSO lot, which together equal 5 acres. Eugene is a more prominent gateway into downtown, especially from the south and west than the corner of S. Elm and Lee.

Triadwatch

Hey Ernie go screw yourself

Ernie McCracken

"Hey Ernie go screw yourself"

I'm calling the police. You can't make fun of people on the interwebz. Bob's lawyer friend said it is illegal to do so. Enjoy jail, pan.

Ed Cone

No, the plans for that prime spot don't include a pac...but there are no plans for such a thing anywhere else downtown, either, and nothing firm in view for Elm and Lee to keep it off the list of potential sites...

Billy Jones

Ed, So what constitutes downtown? Where are the borders?

Billy Jones

And why not build a second downtown to the east? You know, like a real world class city.

michele

Billy, be careful what you wish for. New businesses are popping up like weeds in west Greensboro and I don't like it at all. I like houses. Just houses. And woods. And the occasional park.

Fec

A mountain would be nice... and a river.

There are two giant empty properties in the 300 block of Elm Street whose owners are constantly being preyed upon by prospective tenants who ask for this or that modification and invariably back out at the last moment, leaving the owners once again crestfallen. It would be a humane service for the city to buy them out and bulldoze the works, and perhaps use the space for a PAC. Of course, there is always the issue of parking.

If we only had a subway or an elevated railway...

Brian

Doesn't rule it out and it hasn't been considered in any of the initial proposals, either. I wouldn't rule it out either, but it would be quite the interesting site if it truly can combine a PAC AND a mixed-use village. Guess we will begin to learn a little bit more about the future of that site very soon with the selection of the master developer slated to go before the City Council on Feb. 21.

Billy Jones

Michele, "Billy, be careful what you wish for. New businesses are popping up like weeds in west Greensboro and I don't like it at all. I like houses. Just houses. And woods. And the occasional park."

If someone would buy up some property in my neighborhood to build business I would offer to help run the bulldozers.

Billy Jones

The Bessemer Shopping Center would make a great location for a performing arts center now that the grocery store backed out of the deal. Buildings could use some remodeling but they're already built, plenty of parking on site and at the community center across the street and there's loading docks in the rear.

Billy Jones

Wouldn't it be racist or classicism to deny East Greensboro a performing arts center?

ron

certainly the old Duke Power site next to the Children's Museum comes to mind and the Church Street Parking deck is across the street.

Billy Jones

Isn't the old Duke Power site rented out?

Mad Dog

I thought the State Employees Credit Union had purchased the land at Murrow Blvd & Lindsay St.

MD

Ron

I think Weaver owns that lot. It was purchased for development. Anyway Its a great location for a performing arts center. Its in the cultural district and there is plenty of land for a facility and on site parking. The Church Street parking deck is across the street.

Ron

BTW remember Issac Cain? The developer of the big mega project called the Greensboro Triumph Center? He may be planning for Performing Arts Center. His location is the lot the city owns between Friendly Ave and Market Street next to the railroad tracks on the east side of downtown.

http://www.greensborotriumphcenter.info/Home_Page.html

http://exemptinc.com/Project_Specifications.html

Billy Jones

Ron, The 200' NCRR railroad easement will be a problem there. That's the reason the lot is not in use.

Billy Jones

MD "I thought the State Employees Credit Union had purchased the land at Murrow Blvd & Lindsay St."

I don't know but isn't part of that property slated for the Downtown Greenway?

Fewer and fewer options, folks, looking more and more like Greensboro will need a new downtown. The east is still available, better buy in while you can.

Ron

It appears as though Mr Issac Cain's proposal for a downtown performing arts center is legit. Maybe thats why Matt Brown is in such a rush to get this thing built at the coliseum. Clearly they are in a rush and if there is a privately funded proposal on the table, Why is the city pursuing a public facility? I smell a rat.

Brian

SECU did buy property at the NW corner of Murrow and Lindsay for a new branch. The Greenway will be on the opposite side of the street along Murrow and doesn't interfere with the SECU site.

Billy Jones

Brian,
Is there a map available that clearly shows the greenway plans?

Billy Jones

This map shows the greenway as being on both sides of Murrow Blvd.

Downtown continues to shrink.

Brian

Billy - I'm not sure if there is a more detailed map available online, but I can assure you that it will only be going along the northbound lanes of Murrow Blvd., which will shrink from 6 lanes to 4.

Billy Jones

Brian, Any idea how wide the easement is for the greenway?

Brian

Billy - It's been since July that I've been engaged in the Downtown Greenway as part of the Technical Team and while I would have had that information handy at one point, I don't recall what it is right now and don't want to post a guess. I do know that it isn't a uniform easement for the entire loop. GDOT staff should have that info handy. Sorry.

Billy Jones

Brian, No problem. Thanks!

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