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« A new hope | Main | Best new show of the season »

Oct 18, 2011

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justcorbly

Get involved in politics, local or otherwise, and try to transform it into something approaching an instrument of the voters' will. So many of us are so turned off by politics and politicians that we walk away and leave the field open to crooks, egomaniacs, and tools.

Fec

Thanks for this and putting up with me today. I've been in quite a foul mood, but, with your assistance, believe I have achieved some sort of synthesis on the issue. Wordpress.com seems to agree, as I've blown up there this afternoon.

Bill Yaner  N

"Get involved in politics". Yes, of course, that's the only way to change policy. And yet, there comes a time when politics as usual is stalled into total inaction. We were all losing focus on the outrageous behavior of our largest banks - losing our sense of outrage. And it took the brave and wonderful actions - outside the battlefields of politics - on the part of a handful in New York City to send a wake up call around the world.

What those bastards did to us really did suck, didn't it?

Billy Jones

Hold on there, Mousketeers! Three hundred years of politics is what brought us to this place. M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E....

What is the point in voting when the people we elect are corrupted by Wall Street no matter their campaign promises?

When politicans, government workers and a few banksters can be found on street corners carrying signs that read, "Will Tax For Food" then something will be done.

Bill Yaner  N

That's a great link there, Billy Jones.

A great link.

Billy Jones

Thanks Bill.

Fec

Uh, the idea is that if more people vote, politicians will be forced to be more accountable.

Bill Yaner  N

Quite welcome.

Billy Jones

Fec "Uh, the idea is that if more people vote, politicians will be forced to be more accountable."

Hasn't worked for 300 years and you want us to believe it will work now? Get over yourself, you're starting to sound like JoeyG. No leaders makes it very difficult for anyone to corrupt the movement from within or without.

Ed Cone

So what's the mechanism by which change is effected?

john hayes

?.

Billy Jones

"So what's the mechanism by which change is effected?"

Starve 'em out works every time. Like I've been saying for months and you've been slow to grasp, When politicians and government workers (and a few banksters) can be found on street corners holding signs that read, "Will Tax For Food" then those with the power to make changes will make said changes.

Now what's so hard to understand about that?

Ed Cone

What's so hard to understand about that? What it actually means in terms of citizen action.

Starve who out? How?

Advanced question: Is starving people, many of them caught in the same mess as other Americans, really what we want to do? Isn't the real goal to fix or at least improve the system?

Billy Jones

Wall Street is already starving out the rest of us. Any participation in their system strengthens their system. Only when Wall Street hurts will anything be done about the problems Wall Street created. We've been participating in the political process for 300 years but have yet to have a voice.

In this way, Wall Street can fill the halls of Washington with anyone Wall Street wants to put there but accountability will be required so that Wall Street doesn't face the sort of thing that is happening on the streets of Greece this morning.

And you can bet that if and when it happens there will be a whole lot of conservatives, Republicans, Democrats and yes, liberals on the streets including thousands of Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans who are pissed off because they came home from fighting to find their nation was stolen.

And those young men and women are only trained to do one thing.

We tried participation in their system. we went on voter drives, preached for liberals, preached for conservatives and what did we get-- a "recession" no jobs and no future.

Come down from your ivory towers of journalism and NIP, look at how people are living and what people are loosing because we participated in a rigged system.

So how do we starve them out? By not participating in their political system.

Ed Cone

Lots of rhetoric there, Billy, not a lot of straight answers on how to bring about the changes we wish to see.

Billy Jones

You see Ed, as a journalist you still look for the "message." I understand it's not your fault you've been brainwashed to do so. There is no message, no plan for Occupy to bring about the changes-- never was. At least not that I've heard. The plan is to make Wall Street realize that Wall Street created this mess and Wall Street is going to have to fix it even if that means that Wall Street has to lose money.

That's really all we can do.

Billy Jones

PS. Thanks for the compliment:

Rhetoric Definitiondictionary.alot.com
What Is Rhetoric? Find Out w/the Dictionary App
Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary
(rĕt'ər-ĭk) pronunciation
n.

The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively.
A treatise or book discussing this art.
Skill in using language effectively and persuasively.


Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/rhetoric#ixzz1bEhPiROe

Ed Cone

I get that about Occupy, Billy, and I've defended it right here at my brainwashed blog.

But if that's the whole plan, it's not much better than Greenspan trusting bankers to do the right thing out of rational self-interest. Ain't gonna happen.

I'm with you on the political system being broken, but I disagree that it never works and never has worked, or that just walking away from it is a good strategy.

So we see many of the same problems, but not all the same solutions.

Thomas

It seems to me that lack of participation in the political system played some part in creating the mess we see now. It's hard to see how more people staying home on election day is going to make anything better.

I remember a common theme in early interviews with people at Tea Party gatherings was "I've never gotten involved with politics before, but I'm angry enough about what's happening to want to change it". And in a pretty short time, they did have an impact on how things were done.

Fec

Wrong Way Billy has spent his whole pathetic life bucking the system. It's hardwired in. He, and those like him, is too cowardly to do the hard work required for inclusion in the democratic process he calls the borg. This mindset leads to anarchy and represents a very real danger. It's time the adults shut this idiocy down.

Fec

BTW, it's been 229 years since the U.S. Constitution was ratified, and not 300.

Also, in his latest post he indicates political parties have been assimilating us since we could walk.

Billy is a magnificent dumbass.

RBM

The question of whether a politician should vote his concience or his constituency is very old in politics. It is one element to consider in the present broken system.

More voters, only, is not a panacea to this issue. It is clear to me that a politician can vote his constituency with one voter.

I find the 'more voter's' argument simplistic and unpersuasive.

An 'easy' choice I've seen suggested here is reinstate some specific laws, for example Glass-Steagall. This would take no voters (from the electorate) to accomplish.

Fec

224 years since 1787. Sorry.

The pragmatic view is that more voters are required to change the system.

Ed Cone

"More voters, only, is not a panacea." True.

But neither is no voters, or a scarcity of voters who want to reform the system through the kind of sensible measures you mention.

Billy Jones

Hell no, we won't go!

Billy Jones

Ed: "So we see many of the same problems, but not all the same solutions."

And so your solution is more of the same, get out the vote, play the game... Some solution.

Fec

The problem is voter apathy. It needs to be effectively addressed before we abandon the current system.

Billy Jones

PS. Gotta go, a bunch of conservative old church ladies are asking me to deliver more food to the camp just as I did every day since the march. They're so sweet...

john hayes

We are all going to die before we can change the world.

Fec

Not so. While Billy preaches to us about an alternative form of democracy, we're engaged in a very healthy virtual one right here. Indeed, if every city had a vibrant local blogosphere, all our problems would be solved. So, we have a solution: all we need is greater participation.

 Occupy Ed's Mind?

My advice to the protestors is to decamp, return home and become active in local politics*Ed

So you want us to surrender and forget the whole deal.. Some flaming liberal freak coward you are?

Billy Jones

Fec "Not so. While Billy preaches to us about an alternative form of democracy, we're engaged in a very healthy virtual one right here. Indeed, if every city had a vibrant local blogosphere, all our problems would be solved. So, we have a solution: all we need is greater participation."

Yeah, right!

Billy Jones

Fec "The problem is voter apathy. It needs to be effectively addressed before we abandon the current system."

You're putting the cart before the horse. More voters only means more people voting for "leaders" who say one thing then do something else. Voters become apathetic to the system because the system is broken. To assume more voters would fix the system is lunacy when in fact: most people who don't vote do so because the believe the system is broken and their votes count for nothing.

Fec

No, most people don't vote because they are apathetic and therefore ignorant. You want the cart to be pulled without the horse. The answer has been, is and always will be to energize the electorate.

And if you're not happy with the lack of political traction in the local blogosphere, you're as much to blame as anyone, having participated the entire time.

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