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« N&R online strategy | Main | Shelf life »

May 26, 2010


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A. Bulluck

It's too bad that the members of the Pulpit Forum and that moronic, new "Sit-In" thing with the girl with the massive afro don't know how to read.

Brandon Burgess

How can he make sure there are black veterans present if he doesn't personally interview them?

Like I said at Joe's, this is the kind of tokenism that Malcolm X railed against because he understood that it was all about image. And that is one thing we can all agree on. Most of us don't think Knight is racist. Folks just want him to APPEAR all inclusive (even if he is a racist). Just my 2 cents.

Brandon Burgess

My comment to Johnson:

"Mr. Johnson, why didn't you point out the fact that muslim veterans and native american veterans weren't recognized as well? It must be obvious to you that these folks also served
with pride. I'm sure this is just an oversight on your part. And I'm sure it won't happen again."

I guess he doesn't understand that homosexuals also serve with pride. Were they represented? Jews? Asian-Americans? Hispanics? How can we make sure this never happens again?


brandon: you're adding a bunch of egos to one boundary drawn in the sand at low tide. you left out transgenders, native americans whose tribes did not fight on the sides of the british, french and daniel shays. yeah..knight has a lot of splainin' to do. you're a man of your word. your two cents worth is always worth two cents.
that's worth something where i come from.


"And what some of Joe's commenters miss is that he is learning -- he's not dismissing the concerns over diversity, he's listening, and he's addressing them"

My God, Ed, have you know shame or are you just that lacking in self awareness? You were completely on the bandwagon that Knight was somehow tone deaf or excluding black veterans on purpose and you were wrong. Instead of making that the thrust of your post, you deflect and go after commenters on Guarino's site.

You wrote in your sarcastic "Some Veterans Day" thread: "This incident is not the end of the world, but -- as with his recent decision on prayer -- it indicates that Knight is not thinking enough beyond his own experiences and recognizing the scope of his role."

How about a mea culpa that you were wrong about what Knight was thinking?

You're getting as bad about blaming Joe Guarino for everything as Obama is about blaming Bush.


"know" (sic)

Ed Cone

What I actually said was that some of Joe's commenters seem to overlook the fact that Knight listened to criticism of the ceremony and promised to think more about being inclusive from now on -- he didn't rail about political correctness or look for villains, he explained his process and said he'd change it after hearing what others thought about it.

Which strikes me as a good thing, and a good example of an elected official listening and learning on the job.

Not everything is a zero sum game, not every criticism is an attack, not every disagreement is between enemies, and not every issue has to have a winner and a loser. This strikes me as a win all around.

Brandon Burgess

Personally, I think the idea of making sure every demographic is represented will turn out to be cumbersome and as Allen Johnson replied to me, "an absurd extreme".

So where do we draw the line? Are we to only make sure blacks and whites are represented and to hell with the rest of Americans?


Ed you forgot to add "and sometimes it's okay to admit you were wrong".


"How about a mea culpa that you were wrong about what Knight was thinking?"

Now THAT would be something to behold, wouldn't it?

You are an eternal optimist, Spag.

Ed Cone

BB, the Mayor seems to think, upon reflection, that discussing questions of inclusiveness in this context can be a healthy thing for the city.

I don't think the answers need be extreme or absurd, just open-minded and well-intentioned.

Those last two qualities are ones our Mayor has just demonstrated.

Brandon Burgess

Ed, I think discussing is also healthy but I think it is unreasonable for every demographic that is present in the triad, hell, even just the more prominent ones, to expect to be recognized at every turn.

If the mayor thinks he is going to please the community by "making sure" that every demographic is represented at every celebratory function from now on, he is much more naive than his stance on the prayer issue illustrates.

I have a solution. Next time, let's just not include anyone and we can just have a moment of silence...wait...

Ed Cone

BB, I spend a fair amount of time here arguing that issues are not always binary, with simple for/against or right/wrong answers.

But there is a binary aspect to this issue: either it's open for discussion, or it's not.

I think it should be open for discussion. The Mayor seems to agree, as do observers from DBS to John Hammer.

Part of that discussion might include the points you sensibly raise about extreme outcomes.

But at the same time, extreme outcomes are not the only logical result.

Good will, and the perception of same, can go a long way. The Mayor has taken a step toward building good will, which, ideally, reduces the probability of extreme outcomes. Lines of communication are open; actual communication may follow.

Brandon Burgess

Well, hopefully he will demonstrate some sensitivity on this issue and do away with the whole thing (I wouldn't mind doing away the MOS either). Obviously a number of residents are upset by this move. Michele and others have a point about what meaningful prayer is and obviously some atheists don't like the idea.

Brandon Burgess

Oops...wrong issue. My bad.


Haah!!! Brandon, I've been having that same problem (on more than one occasion)! Now at least I feel like I'm in good company. The ironic thing is, the mistake really doesn't alter your point.


...and the courage to admit you were wrong is something I admire, Brandon. It's too bad not everyone has that courage or control of their ego to allow such a thing.

Andrew Brod

Spag, you are the most boring person in the world.


Yeah, too bad.


Thanks for bringing that up, Roch. How many days has it been since the oil spill?

Brod comes rushing in to defend Ed as usual. Again I must query to the crowd: Who really has the man-crush on Ed? Your chivalry is admirable, but more boring and predictable than anything you accuse me of.


I think his man crush is on you, Spag.

Andrew Brod

I'm not defending Ed, I'm just yawning.


I wasn't talking about the oil spill, Sam, I was just agreeing with you that not everyone has enough "self respect" to admit an error. I simply offered a link to your refusal to admit a counting error as an example of a "tutu wearing slime ball," as you say.

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