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« NC8 | Main | Money isn't everything »

May 28, 2010

Comments

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Janetmitchell@mac.com

But why does it have to be there at Ground Zero? That does seem a slap in the face.

justcorbly

There are some people in this country who think freedom of religion applies only if you are in the right religion.

Too many people have conflated Muslim terrorists with Muslims. If they oppose a mosque going up two blocks from Ground Zero, they are admitting they blame a religion for the incident, not the people who flew the planes. In that, they are wrong.

If the planes had been flown by Provisional IRA members, would they blame Catholicism and oppose the building of a church two blocks away?

Sue

Sacred? Profane? There are porn shops in the Ground Zero shopping area already. NYC is a having a lot less angst than other cities that are actually banning mosques altogether.

Angry as Hell

Let me make an analogy here. Let's say I lose my mind and invite you into my house. I am the very gracious and understanding host, and you are a savage thug barbarian. Instead of acting like a civil human being, you crash your car into my home, destroying it, and then proceed to piss on the ashes, and then you punch out my wife.

Sound ridiculous? Well that's the exact thing that's going on here with the terrorists building one of their training centers right on top of their greatest trimumph against this nation, and we're not doing anything to stop it.

muslims hate America. Plain and simple. They want to kill all of us and burn us to the ground. Every single muslim believes this, without exception. Remember, these pieces of sub-human filth are permitted by their false god to lie to us "infidels" as they size us up to the slaughter. They have completely infiltrated our country due to the liberals letting them do so.

If we do not exterminate islam in this country and world wide, then there are going to be more of our buildings knocked down and terrorist mosques built on them.

I have said it before and I will say it again and again and again and again: all muslims hate America, and it is fundamentally impossible to be both muslim and an American. All muslims are ready to kill us. All of us need to be ready and willing to get them before they get us.

Brandon Burgess

"...other cities that are actually banning mosques altogether."

--American cities? I've heard about the Swiss banning parts of mosques.

TL

Let's all pray, in our respective traditions, for Mr. Angry. And then ignore him.

Account Deleted

Angry, Angry, come now brother. Islam is the religion of peace.

cheripickr

AAH, could you go over some of the subtler points in your last post one more time? There were a couple of things that were a little vague.

Brandon Burgess

"Every single muslim believes this, without exception."

--Prove it to me. How do you explain muslim physicians offering free medical care in our area? Surely they must be trying to kill us all by fixing us for free. Excuse me folks, my head is about to explode.

How do you judge millions of muslims based on the actions of 19?

Angry, let me ask you something. Are you a christian? Because I know of thousands of christians who infiltrated this great nation; who used to buy black folks, work them like dogs, rape them, beat and hang them. Should I judge you based on the actions of these christians? Are you a murderer and rapist? No, I would guess that you are one of the loving christian pedophiles. See how that works?

justcorbly

"Angry" is obviously confused about the difference between belief and knowledge.

I spent a few years in an Arab nation a while back. None of the Muslims I knew hated America. They didn't like our policy re: Israel, and they didn't like the guns and the commercialism, but what they wanted was a visa so they could visit cousins in the states.

Nor were most of them particularly devout. They didn't go to mosque on Friday. They'd buy a round when it was their turn.

If they were Palestinian, they'd probably eventually tell you a story about how their dad, or their grandfather, or an uncle, lost his house and his farm in 1948 when a bunch of armed Israeli civilians showed up, forced them out, and moved their own family in. Not surprsingly, they were angry about that.

Terrorists warp religion to justify their own goals. They could just as easily be Christian, Zoroastrian, or whatever. People can kill in the name of the Buddha (which takes some work). If being a Muslim made you a terrorist, there would be more than one billion terrorists on the planet. I'm pretty sure there are not.

Sue

American cities are banning mosques in Tennessee and Georgia.

Brandon Burgess

Sue, though our interpretations of the word "banned" might differ, the behavior described in your links is disgraceful, hateful and in my opinion "unamerican".

Angry as Hell

The only dosapointing part about the Tennessee and Georgia stories is that there aren't 48 other states doing the exact same thing, while burning down the terrorist gathering places which have been built.

If you want to say it's "unAmerican", Brandon, and show how dumb you are, the truth is that to allow a subhuman piece of pure garbage to shit on our country is unAmerican.

Jon A Firebaugh

Brandon,

How do you justify guessing that "angry" is a pedophile? Let's not inject moronic statements because you don't agree with his assessment of Islam.

Without a doubt all Muslims are not terrorists. However, what percentage of terrorists who have strapped bombs to themselves, walked into a crowded market and blown themselves up along with dozens of innocent bystanders were Christians, Jews, Hindus, or Buddhists?

It's ridiculous to overlook the fact that under Islam, women are subject to sanctioned brutalities unthinkable to western civilization.
It's also ridiculous to deny that the Qur'an contains passages portraying Jews and Christians as enemies of Islam, calling for their elimination.

Freedom of religion does not grant carte blanche approval to build a church anywhere you want. There are zoning laws, ordinances, and building codes that may deny a particular site for that purpose, and I'd be surprised if ground zero was zoned thusly.

There may be no legal reason to deny the building of a Mosque at ground zero, but it is a slap in the face to this country and its citizens given the circumstances 911, and would be viewed by radical Islam as proof of our impotence.

Do you suppose if we leveled the palace at Jeddah, the Saudi's would be amenable to building a synogogue on the site?

Also, comparing the Provisional IRA to the Muslim fundamentalist terrorists of 911 is a non starter. The IRA did not use catholicism to justify their actions. Muslim terrorists have and continue to use Islam to justify their actions, so there is at least some linkage despite Justcorbly's protestations of conflation, that Islam is breeding terrorism. To deny this is to deny that HAMAS is an acronym for Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamat al-Islāmiyyah or "Islamic Resistence Movement". Note the difference between "Irish Republican Army" (not Catholic Resistence Movement) and "Islamic Resistence Movement" (not Palestinian Republican Army).

Ed Cone

"There are zoning laws, ordinances, and building codes that may deny a particular site for that purpose, and I'd be surprised if ground zero was zoned thusly."

The local community board approved the new building by a vote of 29-1. The site, as the linked article says, is two blocks from GZ itself.

Michele Forrest

"I would guess that you are one of the loving christian pedophiles. See how that works?"

I don't.

Ged

He's making a sweeping generalization about Catholic priests and child sexual abuse, much like the sweeping generalizations that Angry as Hell is making about all muslims. Both are wrong, both are disgusting.

John

So Ed; I would assume you approve of a symbol of conquest being erected with-in the G-Z area?
Is it not a tradition for Muslims to erect a Mosque when they gain a conquest of a nation? How about Jerusalem?

Ed Cone

John, it seems to me that we can ban the construction of houses of worship for all faiths within a certain radius of the site, or we can ban none.

I don't think the project under construction is a "symbol of conquest," although, given the neighbors described in the linked article (strip club, porn shop, betting parlor), and the massive rebuilding effort a couple of blocks away at Ground Zero itself, one might argue that locating an Islamic center in the area is a triumph of Western pluralism and resolve.

justcorbly

Jon: As far as I know, no Muslims have “strapped bombs to themselves, walked into a crowded market and blown themselves up along with dozens of innocent bystanders” in this country. Many members of other faiths -- Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. -- have engaged in acts of terror in many countries.

Yes, freedom of religion does not mean you can build a place of worship anyplace you wish. But, I do not consider putting a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero to be a slap in the face of this country. Just the opposite. I consider indiscriminately blaming Muslims and Islam for the 9/11 attacks, and believing that placing a mosque near the site of the attacks is an insult, is a perversion and a rejection of the ideals this country is supposed to stand for. We are supposed to be better than that.

My analogy with the Provisional IRA seems apt to me. It was using terrorism to advance its political agenda, just as al-Qaeda and other terrorists are doing today.

John

Jutcobly: Your analogy may be apt for you; but not for me.
Ed: your double speak leads me to assume that you do approve of a trophy to be erected at the point of their conquest.

John

@jutcobly: "As far as I know, no Muslims have “strapped bombs to themselves, walked into a crowded market and blown themselves up along with dozens of innocent bystanders” in this country."
No these bastards just hi-jacked 4 jetliners and flew them into the twin towers and our Pentagon killing over 3,000 INNOCENT people. Now people of the same religion want to erect a monument to those who gave their lives to kill said innocent people.

Brandon Happy as Hell Burgess

"It's ridiculous to overlook the fact that under Islam, women are subject to sanctioned brutalities unthinkable to western civilization."

--You obviously do not know many muslim women. I'm sorry that so many of you can't understand the analogy between "muslims=terrorists; christians=pedophiles". It makes perfect sense to me. It's not a statement of fact; it's throwing AAH logic back at him. Get a grip folks.

Angry as Hell

Thank you John. Too many people have truly forgotten about 9/11 and the lessons this country needed to learn on that day. Thanks to people like that, events like 9/11 will become so common that they'll be unremarkable unless we cut out the cancer that is terrorist islam and liberalism immediately.

As for justcobly, his posts in this thread have proven exactly who's side he is on. I say to you, justcobly, that you are an enemy of the United States and its people and everything we Americans stand for. You have proven yourself to be on the side of terrorist islam and liberalism. You are a traitor. You are a disguisting human being. You will burn in Hell. Hopefully sooner than later.

Happy Burgess

"these bastards just hi-jacked 4 jetliners and flew them into the twin towers and our Pentagon killing over 3,000 INNOCENT people."

--No John, 19 of those guys did. Understand that you are judging over one billion people on the actions of of a very few. I guess you wouldn't object to being judged with the worst of your kind would you? For instance, should a white man today be held accountable for white men that bought slaves hundreds of years ago? Should a christian be held accountable for the illegal activity of another? Help me understand your way of thinking.

John

@justcrazy: . "Many members of other faiths -- Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. -- have engaged in acts of terror in many countries."
As John Steward would say: "HUH"??? How many Jews have hi-jacked planes and flew them into buildings??? How many Hindus have done the same, or used truck bombs to try to blow up the world trade center???
Some have pointed to Tim McVeigh or the crazy guy who flew a single engine plane into an IRS building; but they were targeting our federal government; NOT INNOCENT people.

cheripickr

It's CORBLY, dammit!

Brandon Burgess

John, wow. First of all, I always thought Mcveigh was an atheist (please don't judge me by his actions as I am also an atheist).

John, help me understand what justifies killing "our federal government". I and the FBI would really like to know. What does the bible say about killing?

Brandon Burgess

"What does the bible say about killing?"

--Nevermind. I went and found out myself.

Deuteronomy 17:12

And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.

2 Chronicles 15:12-13

And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.


--Angry as Hell and John, I see where you are coming from now.

Ed Cone

McVeigh was "targeting our federal government; NOT INNOCENT people."

168 people were killed in Oklahoma City, including 19 children under the age of six. What a relief to know that they were not targeted by the bombing.

By John's logic, the 9/11 hijackers weren't targeting the innocent people in the towers, but some larger, more abstract enemy. I guess if they said it was the federal government, then John would have no problem with it.

And John, I don't know how much clearer I can be: we weren't conquered on 9/11, and if we start banning religious institutions of one faith we would have to ban them all.

Brandon Burgess

--Funny how the christians who have a problem with my elementary analogy let the hate being put forth in this thread slide. I'm not at all surprised.

"You are a traitor. You are a disguisting human being. You will burn in Hell. Hopefully sooner than later."

"Some have pointed to Tim McVeigh or the crazy guy who flew a single engine plane into an IRS building; but they were targeting our federal government; NOT INNOCENT people."

--But my analogy of "if muslims=terrorists then christians=pedophiles" bothers you?

Angry as Hell

The pedophilia going on within the church is more "abuse of power" then anything else. Terrorist islam is indicative of the entire false religion. The Church will clean itself up and become stronger from this. Terrorist islam will not. Terrorist islam will continue to destroy everything on this planet unless we put a stop to it immediately.

The point which you keep missing is this. Not all Christians are pedophiles, despite you desperately wanting them to be. All muslims hate America and are terrorists, whether active or in sleeper cells.

Brandon Burgess

Angry, I do not believe or want anyone to believe that all christians are pedophiles. You are missing the point along with most of the other christians in this thread who don't seem to mind your extreme position as much as they mind my simple analogy.

Help me understand why the violent passages from the bible that I have put forth are not evidence of the violent and exclusive nature of christianity and judaism? I do not believe that adherents to either faith take these passages seriously and I do not fear violence from christians and jews. I assume you do not either. Why can't this logic be applied to islam?

Angry as Hell

Because we're civilized and they're not. We're human beings and they're uncivilized savages. We're better then them, they know it, and they can't stand it. We're not them and they hate it, so they will try to destroy us. Either we can let ourselves be destroyed or we can get them first.

Brandon Burgess

Umm, what is civilized about the bible verses I posted? You sound just like a muslim terrorist. They say the exact same things about us!

Angry as Hell

We're right. They're wrong. You keep missing this, either willfully or unwillingly. One is ignorance. One is stupidy. Which one are you, and whose side are you on?

justcorbly

Pay attention, John, et al. Terrorism didn't begin on 9/11. The 20th century saw plenty of terrorism commited by Christians, Jews, Hindus, et al.

Of course, perhaps you have fallen victim to the notion that anything done in the name of the side you support is not terrorism.

concerned

shucks. if TN and GA are banning mosques, can trans-species erotica and animal baiting be far behind.

Brandon Burgess

Well Angry, I am an atheist so I'm not on the christian or muslim side. I'm on the American side. I know many christians and muslims that are also on the American side. We are fighting against savage religious extremists like you who are engaging in holy war with other fanatics and are endangering civilized people all over the world.

Brandon Burgess

"Some have pointed to Tim McVeigh or the crazy guy who flew a single engine plane into an IRS building; but they were targeting our federal government; NOT INNOCENT people."

--John, can you elaborate on what justifies killing another person? What makes someone "not innocent"? I'd really like to know at what point you feel it is ok to bomb a federal building containing children.

Angry as Hell

Your arguments sure as hell aren't on the American side in this thread, and quite frankly, being an athiest is only a little bit better than being a terrorist muslim. And you call me savage. I didn't strap a bomb to my chest and blow up a market today. A terrorist muslim did. I didn't plot to destroy the country I love today. A terrorist muslim did. I didn't abuse my wife and force her to be covered at all times or face execution, all of which are allowed in the "laws" passed down by my false god. A terrorist muslim did.

You call me an extremist. This country needs more people like me and the Tea Party so we can take our country back from the likes of you. Because if you had your way, we wouldn't have a country, now would we?

Brandon Burgess

And tell me Angry, what would be different about this country if you were to "get it back"? Tell me why the country would be better and how you would make that happen.

John

Where have I ever condoned killing anyone?
I condemn killing anyone; for any reason.
Ed; I never said we were conquered. I stated the Islamic mullahs want to erect a trophy at the site of ONE of their conquests.
Brandon; you can go to .........whatever you please..

John

@justcourtme:Pay attention, John, et al. Terrorism didn't begin on 9/11. The 20th century saw plenty of terrorism commited by Christians, Jews, Hindus, et al.

You are right, the United States started battling Islamic pirates shortly after gaining independence from Great Britain
I am no champion of the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist, or any other religious sect. I do know which one has been zealously been fostering a holy war against the United States for centuries; and that is the Islams.

Ed Cone

John, I was just using the word you used - "conquest."

I don't think it's accurate to say Islam has been "fostering a holy war against the United States for centuries." We fought some pirates in our early days, but until 1979 things stayed pretty quiet on the Muslim front; while Islam has been used as a rallying point in recent decades, it seems that many of our problems in the Islamic world are more political than religious in nature. Also, Turkey was one of our most stalwart allies in the Cold War. Etc.

Also, I doubt you meant to let McVeigh off the hook, but perhaps you can see how your comment might give that impression: "Some have pointed to Tim McVeigh or the crazy guy who flew a single engine plane into an IRS building; but they were targeting our federal government; NOT INNOCENT people."

That makes it sound like the people killed in OK City were collateral damage in an understandable cause, rather than innocent victims.

justcorbly

>>I am no champion of the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist, or any other religious sect.

I don't care. None of my business. The fact that you feel the need to make such a declaration show you missed the point.

>> I do know which one has been zealously been fostering a holy war against the United States for centuries; and that is the Islams.

No, they haven't.

Methinks you are a hater looking to manufactuer justifcation for your hate. Rather akin to Osama, actually.

Angry as Hell

Yes they have, and to deny that is to either be so willfully ignorant you don't belong out in public, or to hate this country to the point that you commit treason against it.

I've already said that you are an enemy of America. You've done nothing to convince me otherwise. Either leave this country or leave this planet. Prefer the latter, will take the former.

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