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« U turn? | Main | GSO in Charlotte »

Mar 01, 2010

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Ryan Shell

This meeting: http://greensboropolitics.com/another-google-public-meeting/?

Ed, I'm glad you're on the FB page bandwagon, but having thousands of fans without a central message or concept isn't going to get us very far.

Why don't we simply set a date for a second meeting, invite the City, interested citizens, the "movers and shakers," and see where it gets us. I'll start the process if you'll attend and help promote it. You game?

Ed Cone

I'm in, but it makes sense to coordinate with the City rather than just invite them -- duplication of effort is a problem to avoid, with staff and also other volunteers.

Another reason a central project website is long overdue.

Tim

If the Raleigh/Durham area is trying to get google we might as well forget it. Don't get me wrong I support getting the google network here.

So far it doesn't look like we are doing anything that will make us stand out from the other cities trying to get google. It is going to take more than having a lot of people sign up on facebook. I guess Charlotte doesn't qualify since they have over 500,000 residents. Thats one less city we have to worry about.

Andrew M.

For what it's worth, someone named Nhia Vang has registered the domain googlegreensboro.com. Her linkedin profile says she works for a PR/marketing firm in downtown. Maybe someone should get in touch with her.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/nhiavang
http://www.rlfcommunications.com/

Ryan Shell

Ed, I'll see what I can get started. I've reached out to the City and will let you know where things go.

Andrew, thanks for the info. I'm sure that will likely be ported over to the City.

Roch101

That domain was registered by RLF Communications, the PR agency Action Greensboro had wanted to hire to manage the online efforts and Ryan's former employer.

Andrew M.

Thanks for the clarification Roch. Does your use of the past tense mean Action Greensboro no longer has plans to move forward with that?

Sue

Topeka had a flash mob re; their google application and a fairly down-to-earth busy Web site to support their effort. Twinports is actively pursuing a great online effort for a small burg and their mayor actually went on the radio to talk about the opportunity and got a big local story out of it. Their mayor even had a press release and a fairly positive news story.

What do they have in common? Some excitement. A unified voice. A mayor who's leading the charge. A vision. Some graphics. Video. Radio.

What does Greensboro want? A second meeting. See a difference?

Ed Cone

So where's the central site for GSO?

Our mayor may not be interested, but the people who want his job are...

Ryan Shell

Roch,

You sure are hung up on the fact that I worked for RLF (more than two years ago). I also worked for Lowes Hardware and Roadway when I was 18. Oh, and I painted mailboxes when I was 12; $10 for the black part and $2 extra for the flag.

RLF's help would have progressed this effort much farther than it has gone at this point. Scratch that. Any organized help would have helped this effort progress (more than a FB group growing at a slow rate) much further than it has at this point.

Ryan

Ryan Shell

By the way, Sue, thank you for pointing the links out. You sound as if you are downing the concept of a second meeting, but do know the goal (as I previously suggested) is to accomplish some of the things you pointed out.

Will that second meeting be supported by the City? Here's an update, http://greensboropolitics.com/about-the-second-google-meeting.

Ryan

Tim

I agree with Sue. The community isnt doing enough. From the examples she posted, clearly Greensboro could be more excited about this. The city that wants it the most is going to get it, bottom line. And the community has to be united behind the project and not local leaders and a hand full of citizens. A facebook page alone just isnt gonna get it.

RecycleBill

I'd still be interested to know because without an answer there's no reason to court Google.

sean coon

as much as i want google fiber here, the net result would be 100x faster speeds for more $$ per month than we all currently pay for crappier service.

while that's appealing to many of us, the reality is that we live in a city with a rather large unemployment and poverty rate, with another huge chunk of the population struggling to make ends meet. most, if not all of those people, don't have the cognitive clearance to care about such an initiative.

so instead of bemoaning what's happening and how we're doing it, as if this were a televised race against equally limbed competitors, why don't we do the best we can. google fiber coming here is a longshot, but collecting "fans" of the concept of high-speed competition is a long-term play that we can't afford to dismiss.

Jim Caserta

Google would offer an investment of roughly $500million. It would be a fairly labor intensive effort running fiberoptic cable to people's homes and installing optoelectric receiver boxes. Say the effort is 50% labor and takes 2 years. At $50k/job, that works out to 2500 jobs. Very rough estimates. With the google network, T-W would upgrade its network and/or lower its prices. Take $10/mo off 50k T-W customer's bills, and that's $6M more per year staying in our community. Those are real tangible benefits.

I feel that google will base its decision on the logistics of the locale -
Positive factors:
available existing google backbone connection (where does the connection from Lenoir run???),
high percentage of adoption
sufficient number of potential customers
existing tech/education community

Negative factors:
alternate fiber options
licensing trouble to use their network for TV

I cannot think of a reason why a fiberoptic network would not include cable-TV and phone offerings. That's pretty easy money that increases the financial incentive of the project.

If Durham/RTP is chosen over GSO/W-S it will be more due to the bigger emphasis on high-tech & research in that area relative to the Triad, not a lack of gov't effort. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't involve gov't and local grassroots efforts, but I think the importance of said initiatives should be kept in perspective.

Duluth & Topeka are cities with stagnant or falling populations, while Greensboro has grown (says the census) by nearly 33% since 1990. W-S is up around 50% in that time frame. I know some of that is annexation, but it still looks better to have a rising population than a falling one.

Unemployment is pretty high nearly everywhere, although it is 11% in GSO vs. 8% in Durham...guess where I got that data...

Sue

In the initial days of blogging, I would have started this comment with "rant alert."

--

Ed wrote, "So where's the central site for GSO? Our mayor may not be interested..."

I think that pretty much sums it up. The mayor isn't interested and has done nothing that I know of; certainly nothing to point to like, show some enthusiasm or offer a cool quote or press release. Action Greensboro tried to put together a team, led by a professional firm, and it got "puked" at by you, Ed ("Now that I'm done puking at the idea of Action Greensboro hiring a PR firm to do this".) There was complaining about who might or might not be on some potential "team" (and I bear some responsibility for mentioning that team when it was more of a hypothetical than a reality and apologized for it but Ed, you were also asked if you were interested - did you respond?). The bottom line is that there is no city site yet, no mayor-led cheerleading or recognition that this could be important, no out-of-our-box follow-up that seems lately (and sadly) to define a defeated-feeling & acting fractured Greensboro.

We were once slightly ahead of the curve. We aren't anymore. You asked where the city site was, Ed. Did you offer to help write content for it? To hire a PR firm (or a struggling graphics designer) to design it or promote it or build a logo or seed Twitter, organize a possibly viral video (I could go on) or did you disdain a group that tried to do some or all of those things? (And not to pick solely on Ed, how about the rest of us?)

Every creative person in this burg coulda, shoulda, woulda. But WILL they? It's hard not to despair when there's only a FB group and an aggregator and a lot of complaining and finger-pointing to know who should have done something by now. The only answer I can think of, sadly, is all of us. But it's hard, y'know, when the idea makes you "puke" and you suggested no alternative.

@Ryan: we don't need a second meeting. The format of the first one was fairly useless but made a nice, brief TV spot. Without a 2-4 hour brainstorming session led by professionals or at least by someone with a real vision and online plan and some excitement that builds real next steps, let's just sit back, blog about how awful everything is, and show our disgust if any pro-Greensboro group tries to move forward.

As in the olden days, end of rant. Apologies to all offended.

Andrew M.

I will pay for a domain name, 2 months of hosting, and provide the free use of a Wordpress template I purchased in January but never ended up using.

Here's a preview of it. http://themeforest.net/item/caulk/full_screen_preview/76108

I'm am by no means an html genius, but I can usually find the answers to code issues somewhere. I wouldn't be able to create all or even most of the content. But if enough people were interested in contributing, I could just assign multiple user accounts so different people could add new blog entries, etc. at their leisure.

On a side note, I think it would be pretty cool if there was a central website and we had blog posts from city officials, local big wigs, etc. about why Greensboro would be a good fit for google. Similar to HuffPost, but without the political agenda

Let me know about the domain and hosting.

Account Deleted

Aren't Jay Ovittore and Roch Smith Jr. already out in front of most of what needs to be done? The formalities of the rest seem mundane in comparison.

Can somebody get Jay and Roch some funding and everybody else get on board?

Account Deleted

This is very nice.

This seems to be getting attention?

google4gso.com seems like a great name for the site. What else is missing?

Roch101

Andrew, M.: I don't know what Action Greensboro or their PR firm may have planned. I hope it is something--something that reflects the openness and inclusiveness of the online community and not some carefully fabricated behind-closed-doors surprise.

Jim Caserta

I think Ed's link to the article, and the article's direct mention of Durham's asst. city manager is what Ed would like to see?? This is an initiative that will require cooperation with local gov't - getting right of way access, licensing TV, etc. A grassroots effort without a full sign-on by actual gov't is not what Google's looking for. The local effort will tell Google that the market will be responsive to their offering, and they'll get decent market penetration. They won't get into a situation where they need to be begging for this or that access. They don't need to right now. There are enough markets begging them, that Google'll make sure that they get what they want worked into a contract. A one page statement from the mayor would be enough. The article with Winston Salem's mayor's thoughts doesn't show enough enthusiasm. It's a statement though.

I am also unsure about how much of the up-front cost Google would expect from their chosen location. 100% Google paid (what I'm hoping for). If it becomes anything close to a 50-50 partnership, that is a huge amount of money, and the calculus changes. At 50-50 you could probably get AT&T to set up their network.

Jim Caserta

Who is working on GSO (or W-S's) 26 page application? Is it coincidence that both Durham's and Kalamazoo's applications are both that length? It seems like there are people in GSO willing to help flesh out the app.

Roch101

"how about the rest of us?" -- Sue

Check.

Look, Danny Thompson was out of the gate like a shot on this. He came up with the idea for "Operation Google." City staff set about to design a really cool logo for it which inspired someone else in the city (sorry I don't remember your name), to actually build an imporessive life-size prop. I registered the domain operationgoogle.net (.com already being registered) and made it repeatedly clear that the domain was at the city's disposal, with or without my hosting any site.

Then Action Greensboro stepped in, extending private invitations to selected individuals, offering a different domain name that would scrap Operation Google and proposing that their PR agency "manage" social media. People objected to that kind of hijacking. Action Greensboro and their PR agency responded by boycotting the public meeting.

A good effort on Greensboro's behalf will have a lot of moving parts and will require participation from all corners. I've offered to submit a proposal to the City for quickly building the kind of web site they need. I'd incorporate a social media aggregator, like I've already built among other things. But I am not going to stop participating if my offer is rejected. I'll contribute in other ways. I will be looking at the quality of what does get produced, it should be inclusive, participatory and chock full of Google tools, like a Blogspot blog and YouTube channel.

There is no need for much more delay though. The City should, by now, know that whatever they come up with, a Blogspot blog, Twitter feed and participation in the Facebook group will be included and there is no reason for those not to be already underway. They don't need to wait for a web site to jump into those things. Heck, Ed already went through the two minutes it takes to set up a blog for them. They City has the password, but no posts yet. Not sure what the delay is.

Jim Caserta
Above all, we're interested in deploying our network efficiently and quickly, and are hoping to identify interested communities that will work with us to achieve this goal. We also want to want to work with a community where we can bring significant benefits to residents and develop useful proofs-of-concept that can have a broader impact. For example, we're looking for opportunities to experiment with deployment techniques that can inform and accelerate broadband deployment elsewhere as well. To that end, we'll use our RFI to identify interested communities and to assess local factors that will impact the efficiency and speed of our deployment, such as the [1] level of community support, [2] local resources, [3] weather conditions, [4] approved construction methods and [5] local regulatory issues. We will also take into account [6] broadband availability and speeds that are already offered to users within a community. The RFI is a first step – we plan to consult with local government organizations, as well as conduct site visits and meet with local officials, before announcing our final decisions.
Any cheerleading on a city's behalf should focus on what Google says they are looking for.
Sue

@Jeff, the FB fan page is very nice. What has it done?
The web site/aggregator, likewise, what has it accomplished?

Social media can accomplish things (see the $5M raised for Haiti on Twitter in 1-2 days). FB groups join to get numbers and maybe some discussions, but what has this FB page done that is tangible? How many people did it put into action?

Attracting Google or any other modern initiative means people have to get out from behind their keyboards and do something beyond speechifying. We have a lot of talent here but not enough organizing and whole lot of disdaining those who try (with simultaneous finger-pointing, or puking, at any group with an idea). After all, if hiring a PR firm makes you puke, then what is the better next step?

BTW, we learn what's going on often by getting involved. We built ConvergeSouth from a single meeting after a single idea because people got excited and did work and yes, there was leadership (a core team that worked incessantly and didn't get paid a dime). Hopefully, CS will be back this year - and I wonder if anyone so far has even mentioned ConvergeSouth as one big citizen-led, citizen-inspired thing that other cities don't have that makes GSO different in this struggle for Google-attraction. (We have tons of photos - how about some video set to cool music?) If the rank/file wants to meet, they don't need permission. Just leadership. Ideas. And being willing to do very hard deadline work done through servant leadership and not by waiting to be invited.

About CS: we have had a huge beginning, lots of plans, new format, extraordinarily low pricing and volunteers working hard all over 2 states. We're hoping to have sponsors signed by 3/31. Then there will be announcements and practically free registration and 2-3 keynotes. Word-camp, Pitch-Camp, Tech-Shootout. New people bring new ideas and meet on weekends. Invitations to participate were social-media spread; everyone is welcome.

But it's not the conference that I'm promoting here; rather, it's the effort. Don't you see any parallels?

Roch101

"Attracting Google or any other modern initiative means people have to get out from behind their keyboards and do something beyond speechifying." -- Sue

Missed you at the meeting.

As Jim says, Google is looking to measure community support. What the Facebook group has "done" already, is put a number, a big number, on that support.

Roch101

Jeff, thanks for the accolades. There is more that an "official" site needs than what is at Google4Greensboro.com, Ed suggested a way for people to add remarks directly to the site. That's a great idea. I'd have them represented as pins on a GOOGLE map. But I don't currently have the time to do more. (Gotta eat.)

I scrambled to get Google4Greensboro.com online, frankly, in response to the invitation-only effort when I heard about it. I wanted to make sure that there was something out there, whether "official" or not, that was all-inclusive and genuine.

Roch101

"Who is working on GSO (or W-S's) 26 page application? Is it coincidence that both Durham's and Kalamazoo's applications are both that length? It seems like there are people in GSO willing to help flesh out the app." -- Jim

Jim, my understanding is that City staff is already working on the application. There are a lot of questions that ask for empirical data without much room for creativity or elaboration.

There are some questions, however, that offer the opportunity for persuasion, such as "Why Google should select your community" and questions that plumb community support. They invite links to web pages, videos and Google maps too. Those are the kinds of things that can be generated by individuals. The city should give careful attention to combing local online media for people offering their own answers these questions in addition to actively soliciting them from people who may be busy with other things (Moe Green, for example). The City should then collate these into the City's official response to these questions.

RecycleBill

So with all this "community involvement" no one can answer the question, "... what GSO offers GOOG?"

Without an answer to that one question all is lost.

Ed Cone

The City needs its own official, central site. A message from the mayor would be nice to see there. As Jim says, Google is looking for local government leadership.

"Ed, you were also asked if you were interested - did you respond?"

Nobody has asked me anything, and I've had zero contact with Action Greensboro or any group other than the folks at the City meeting and the FB pagers.

My problems with Action Greensboro are about transparency. If a snotty remark in a blog comment derailed their whole plan, it wasn't much of a plan to begin with.

Account Deleted

Well when you add the blog it seems to this observer that all the public messaging needs are in place. If the "official" effort hooks up with what is already in place and completes the application process and provides the technical guts of the matter, then Greensboro's effort looks pretty good in my opinion.

Somebody just needs to bite the bullet and get the whole package together.

RecycleBill

Again, what does GSO have that would be of benefit to Google? And can other cities offer more? After all isn't this really just another Carrot On A Stick?

Roch101

A morning press release from the city reminds me that the cool glowing Operation Google Google Greensboro crate was "built by Jay Jones of the Engineering and Inspections staff (for less than $100!)."

Roch101

As Jeff observes, Durham used Google Sites to get their web site up quickly. Yeah, but Google?

Sue

@Roch who wrote, "Missed you at the meeting."

Sorry you resorted to snarkery, Roch, but I own a business. Was chasing down a hacker and was on the phone with various gov't agencies to prosecute across state lines. I watched online and saw a bunch of people saying why, in under 2 minutes, it was a good idea. After 38 minutes, it was over.

My time was dual-spent.

Sue

@Ed, who wrote, "Nobody has asked me anything, and I've had zero contact with Action Greensboro or any group other than the folks at the City meeting and the FB pagers."

Very surprising. I have a copy of the email asking me if I were interested in a possible group effort and you were cc'ed. When I replied, I also cc'ed you. Perhaps it landed in your spam folder - twice?

Ed Cone

A lot of people were missed at the meeting, including folks from Action Greensboro, universities, MoCoHS, et al, but I still got more out of it than a bunch of people saying it was a good idea -- I heard people discussing, in public and in front of City staff why it was a good idea, for both GSO and GOOG.

I have received no email or any other communication about any meetings or committees pertaining to this effort.

Greensboro Press Release Service

All right !

RecycleBill

But to date no one has been able to tell us what Greensboro has that 100 other cities can't match. Answer that question and we'll get Google.

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