Sam's been firing blanks at the Google fiber initiative. Today he comes out and says, in response to an N&R editorial, "No borrowing for broadband," which is at least a coherent position, even if it's wrong.
We don't know what the costs of winning Google would be. Seems to me the PR impact of the project would be blunted considerably if the hugely rich company turned around and told the recipients they're getting the bill, but if that happens, we can always say no thanks, and still be better off for the experience. And if some costs are involved in leveraging a major infrastructure upgrade, we should at least consider them.
Ryan wants to have another public meeting.
Lenoir data center != Google fiber network. The money from the Lenoir community that goes to Google every month, absent incentives, is 0. The potential from the fiber network, taking 100k subscribers, would be $10M - $20M/month.
Google should cover 100% of the network costs. Is Verizon getting subsidies for its FiOS-FTTH?
What Google needs is an area where people will be excited to switch carriers - from T-W or AT&T to the Google service. If the residents of the locale feel screwed through incentives, will they be lining up for the service?
If Wilson, NC retains ownership of the network and leases access to it to Greenlight it is like a town borrowing to build a toll road - something that is worthwhile and can be self-funding by users. Can't cities borrow to build roads? Why is this infrastructure considered so different? I would disagree with the N&R that somehow this network will parallel the benefits of being on a railroad. I don't see this network enabling things immediately that we couldn't do earlier.
Posted by: Jim Caserta | Feb 26, 2010 at 10:14 AM
!=
Something we don't know about you, Jim?
Posted by: Roch101 | Feb 26, 2010 at 10:35 AM
geekspeak for not-equal to. I thought my geek status was public knowledge.
Wilson's network is an interesting case. Their fees are $170 for 20MBps up&down, what appears to be good cable + unlimited local & long dist. phone. That seems competitive with T-W. 20MBps upload is a ~100x improvement over T-W, which is nice when you're uploading 500 MB worth of pictures to shutterfly. I would bet they are easily funding their bond costs, and most likely paying them down.
Posted by: Jim Caserta | Feb 26, 2010 at 10:50 AM
Greenlight - Wilson's fiber network
Posted by: Jim Caserta | Feb 26, 2010 at 10:53 AM
Don't know why, but I thought you were an economics guy. The code surprised me.
Posted by: Roch101 | Feb 26, 2010 at 10:58 AM
It's great that Wilson is now part of the conversation.
Posted by: Ryan Shell | Feb 26, 2010 at 12:55 PM
I work directly with the City of Wilson at the NCGA on broadband issues and what you don't know is that they tried for 2 years to get a public/private partnership with TWC, who refused outright to upgrade in any way. Wilson approved a 28 million dollar bond to bring FTTH and they have seen this: while TWC raised rates across NC last month(between 15 and 32%), the TWC customers in Wilson saw a rate decrease of about 30%. What cost me close to $200 a month here for the triple bundle would cost $170 for a Wilson resident on Greenlight(as Jim pointed out). A the Wilson resident gets twice the download speed and about 40x the average upload speed.
The important part is that TWC would not budge on upgrading their infrastructure in Wilson, which is our future with them here if we don't explore our options as a community to move into the 21st century.
Posted by: Jay Ovittore | Feb 26, 2010 at 05:49 PM
Ryan- I agree another public meeting should be in the works. Now off to the movies , so I will check this thread later tonight.
Posted by: Jay Ovittore | Feb 26, 2010 at 05:51 PM
Jay, your comments about Wilson should further the municipal Wi-Fi conversation that I've tried to start. Of course, for it to work we'd have to have a partner such as Google.
Posted by: Ryan Shell | Feb 26, 2010 at 10:52 PM
Ryan- The Google RFI that they put out is not for WI-FI(which Clearwire owns the spectrum here) it is for Fiber to the Home. Also, Wilson did not need a partner. Greenlight is a service owned and operated by the City of Wilson.
Posted by: Jay Ovittore | Feb 27, 2010 at 12:33 AM
Fiber-to-the-home (FTTH) - what Google is proposing is technically superior to muni wi-fi. Say everyone in a neighborhood wants to stream video on a muni wi-fi (m-w-f) - ain't gonna happen. What are the top BW's of m-w-f. It's a channel problem, fiber is a 6-ft wide water main, while m-w-f is a garden hose. If you want more details, let me know, but the google should be able to get you started.
Jay's example highlights something I mentioned in some post about Google-fiber: even people that don't sign up for google will see a benefit because of improved service from T-W. There is no real triple play bundle provider here. Price changes when the number of suppliers go from 1 to 2 can be very dramatic.
I am interested in the Wilson network for another reason. Lots of people say, if there's profit to be had, the private sector will come in. Obviously the private sector didn't come in (I doubt building their own network was their first choice), and I would guess it is profitable. Projects requiring big capital expenditures, high up front costs and smaller income streams require forethought, patience and guts. As much as I respect business leaders, most do not have all three. In addition, this project requires actual technical expertise from an organization, unfortunately one type of labor that is not currently in surplus.
I'm thawing to the idea of a city using incentive money to lure google, on the condition they get an equity stake in the network, and a dividend of the monthly payments. Eventually google would probably want to sell off the network, so it would go right with having a part owner. Cities will have a hard time fully self-funding the project because of strained finances and the rough muni-bond market. GSO would also have a hard time selling a network like this TODAY if they wanted to make it purely private, but in 10 years or so, the network might be worth a lot more than it cost to put in. The cost of installing this network is probably close to the lowest it ever would have or ever would be. That is a big reason Google is looking to do this now, and not 3-4 years ago.
Posted by: Jim Caserta | Feb 27, 2010 at 06:59 AM
Wilson's municipal service came up last year as an example for Greensboro when Time Warner Cable was threatening to put Greensboro on tiered pricing.
I am inclined to agree with Jay, that Greensboro should focus on meeting the requirements for what Google is proposing.
Posted by: Roch101 | Feb 27, 2010 at 09:03 AM