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« Natatory notes | Main | Rhymes with "Ishtar" »

Dec 11, 2009

Comments

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Patrick Eakes

I wonder what Cullen Jones
thinks of Joe's thesis.

Dave Ribar

Ed:

What a misrepresentation of what Joe wrote.

Feel better?

Joe makes the very valid point that the pool will benefit some groups more than others, not that it will benefit some exclusively.

Jeffrey Sykes

I think he said that blacks are underrepresented in competitive swimming specifically in comparison to the percentage of blacks represented in the population of renters in Greensboro.

Wouldn't that make your statement false?

How are we ever going to have honest discussions about race if we automatically paint any mention of race in the ugliest lite possible?

Jeffrey Sykes

My comment was re: Ed not Ribar.

Spag

How many times have we heard that the GOP is the party of white men, or that something only benefits rich, white folks? These arguments usually come from people on the Left. Why is Joe suddenly singled out for pointing out that the benefits of this project would largely accrue to one group of people? I think that Joe is right on this one in that it seems unfair for taxpayers to foot the cost for what is essentially a "toy" that would used by a limited group of people, regardless of race.

Andrew Brod

I agree with Ribar and Sykes. And Guarino's analysis is fair as far as it goes. But my understanding of the aquatic center is that it's not just a community pool, meaning that it will also be a community pool. Hence it'll have programs that will benefit all socioeconomic strata. (And one could argue that higher-income folks already have their neighborhood pools and country clubs, in which case those programs might benefit primarily lower-income families.)

Moreover, to the extent that the center's income-attracting programs (e.g. regional swimming meets) actually do have an economic impact, it shouldn't be so summarily dismissed. Higher occupancy rates in hotels means more need for hotel staff and more purchasing throughout the economy. I'm not saying that there wouldn't still be a net transfer from lower-income groups, because no one's done that kind of analysis. But the impact probably wouldn't be as narrowly focused as Guarino imagines.

Hugh

Cone can't reason without bias.

See how easy it is?

greensboro transplant

methinks ed was feeling a bit neglected this morning. he knows damn well what Joe meant and he knows the reaction his post would draw.

as to andrew's point about the impact, it would be interesting to see a realistic projection of the impact over the next 10 years. it would also be good to see data from the other cities - i.e. what the projections were vs. what the actual effect has been. the council should at least have this info before rubber stamping the previous decision.

cheripickr

Dave Ribar, thanks for telling it like it is and not playing left vs right team ball. Of course our fearless host has done this before. He's very good at lobbing missiles from long-range but doesn't much care for direct debate or confrontation, particularly at the blog of the person he’s chosen to tar with the race brush. Of course he left himself just enough wiggle room to dance away from his obvious and typical passive-aggressive inference since he’s always careful not to say anything too specific. He’ll use the word “seems” and "you're free to disagree" a lot, and as Marshall put it so well the other day we will eventually “ tire of the silly back and forth that you enjoy” which will ensue in denying his race-baiting in lieu of serious discussion of his distaste for Joe’s sincerely held and thoughtfully expressed positions.

Tony Wilkins

Ed, do you work part time with the News & Record as a headline writer?
Or were you just poking a 'possum with a stick in an effort to make him angry?

Spag

Charlie don't surf.

Andrew Brod

Spag, I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

Fred Gregory

Where's Ed ? Did he drown when the lifeguard was looking the other way ?

Spag

Smells like victory...

cheripickr

Brando: Are my methods unsound?
Sheen: I don't see any method at all, sir.

JAT

That is just very weak, Ed.

Guess I should point out that some of us down here in CLT thought a $40m. taxpayer subsidized whitewater center was bad policy -- even before it defaulted on loans -- because it benefited a clubby little group, namely banker wanna-bes who didn't want to drive to the mountains to pretend to be world-class athletes.

But evidently we shoulda just said "blacks don't kayak."

Man up and apologize.

Marshall

Ed,

I have not decided yet but here is what I am thinking--- When I see a silly title to a post (or content on some) like this it makes me wonder if you are not attempting to gain more visitors to your blog and have little interest otherwise.

With that theory on the table what I am contemplating is a simple opinion system where ED PRO would indicate
Ed whore or Ed prositute.

My other thought is to stop posting again and waste my time in other areas.

Up until recently I chose your blog as one of my most often visited not that you would or should have any interest.
You are still a cool person face to face.

Thanks,

Beelzebubba

this thread reminds me of a jonathan katz joke. he said he was attempting to tell his wife how beautiful she looked but all that came out was "you ruined my life you miserable whore." misunderstandings such as that happen at my house all the time.

Ed Cone

JAT,

If you had written a detailed post that included as one of its arguments, "I do not see anyone alleging that whitewater kayaking attracts representative numbers of African Americans," then "black people don't kayak" would strike me as reasonable text for a link to that post.

I don't agree with some of Joe's arguments, including the idea that a scarcity of black competitive swimmers is a reason not to build the facility, but I don't think it's bad -- or as far as I know, inaccurate -- to say there seems to be a shortage of black competitive swimmers.

Dave Ribar

Ed:

Joe's quote in full was:

But let us look further at the demographics of competitive swimming. I do not see anyone alleging that this is a sport that attracts representative numbers of people from the lower middle class or the working class. I do not see anyone alleging that it attracts representative numbers of African Americans. In fact, it is a sport that is predominantly upper-middle class, upper class and white.

Writing that blacks are under-represented in competitive swimming is not reasonably summed up by the derogatory and charged statement that "blacks don't swim."

cheripickr

CP-(predicting the predictable) "Of course he left himself just enough wiggle room to dance away from his obvious and typical passive-aggressive inference since he’s always careful not to say anything too specific. He’ll use the word “seems” a lot…"

Ed-(predictably) "but I don't think it's bad -- or as far as I know, inaccurate -- to say there seems to be a shortage of black competitive swimmers."

Dave-( accurately and unnecessarily having to restate the obvious) "Writing that blacks are under-represented in competitive swimming is not reasonably summed up by the derogatory and charged statement that "blacks don't swim."

Marshall-“You are a grown man and I tire of the silly back and forth that you enjoy.”
My other thought is to stop posting again and waste my time in other areas.”

--same for more and more people who haven’t the inclination or luxury of unlimited time for endless indulgence of such games, I would imagine.

Spag

CP, I hand the crown over to you.

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