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« Core assets | Main | GOP, yo »

Feb 21, 2009

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Big L

Anyone talking six months and believing it must also believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny.

King Hussein just robbed America without a gun, and people aren't even outraged about it! You think all that money he just stole is gonna fix the banks in six months? It wouldn't fix anything in sixty years!

That money isn't going to help the average American taxpayer. It's going to fund the al-qaeda training camps. It'll help the illegal immigrant with his fifteen fellow illegal family living in a two-bedroom apartment. It'll fund plenty of the fat cats who illegally funded King Hussein's "record setting" campaign. It'll do everything except what King Hussein and the liberal press say it will.

I've already removed a good deal of my money from the banks, simply because I no longer trust them, and anything under King Hussein's grasp has to be considered terrorist funding. My paycheck is going 65-35 in the ratio of into the bank and into my possession as physical currency, and as soon as the unemployment numbers hit double digits (which is any day now), it's going to go to 50-50.

I always thought that if the end of the world did come about, it would have been from Russia or some other nuclear power started pressing the button. I never thought that the liberals would actually destroy the world in order to try and win control of the government.

But please, continue talking about six months.

Ed Cone

He's not saying the banks will be fixed in six months.

He's saying the real effort to fix the banks will begin in six months.

cheripickr

I'm optimistic that this will be the start of a long and productive dialogue between the two of you reaching across the aisle and discovering much common ground.

justcorbly

Crunch time will come when a bank that is too large to be bailed out is on the verge of collapse. What would happen if next Friday afternoon Citicorp said it was going under?

The decision to nationalize or not should be based on utility and effectiveness, not on ideology. I.e., it ought not to be avoided if it rubs some folks the wrong way, and it should not be enacted simply because other folks like the idea.

Obama is also doing a political balancing act here. He can't get too far out in front of what the public will accept. In this instance, the public's level of acceptance is keyed to its level of fear.

Frankly, the response to the collapse of a global entity like Citicorp should not be expected to come from just one country. It's time to call a global conference and fix the planet's financial structures.

winstongator

I think it will be within 3 months. Citi announced its most recent results around 1/15, and this quarter's will be due in mid April. Those numbers could be so bad that we will see action between now and then. Roubini makes lots of great points:


"we started with banks that were too big to fail, but what has happened, in the process, is that these banks have become even-bigger-to-fail. J.P. Morgan took over Bear Stearns and WaMu. BofA took over Countrywide and then Merrill. Wells Fargo took over Wachovia. It doesn't work! You can't take two zombie banks, put them together, and make a strong bank."
"over and over again, get into these periods of irrational exuberance, when not only is there an asset bubble and a credit bubble, but people believe these are sustainable over a long time -- Wall Street, policy makers, rating agencies, academics, journalists . . . ."

I wonder if subscriptions to his RGE monitor have increased?

Beelzebubba

Question to Ayn Rand: Is gold-backed currency essential to a free-enterprise system and the preservation of freedom? Rand replies: Yes. I won't give you a detailed treatise on money, but I'll indicate the essential issue. Gold has an objective material value-its value is not establised by arbitrary decree. Gold was selected as the medium of exchange in most civilizations because it had an actual physical use and value; it was not a mere piece of paper. When currency is not backed by gold, then we are under the power of a government that arbitrarily sets the value of money, devaluates the currency, inflates credit, and taxes us indirectly through the manipulation of money, which is more disastorous than direct taxation. The government's power to destroy the objective value and security of currency is precisely what ultimately destroys the economy....this will have disastorous consequences. Such a policy would be impossible if we had a gold backed medium of exchange." ....these are Rand's words on tape and in print. Where Roubini the Impotent Prognosticator got his ideas on Rand's extremist views I will never know. I know where intellectually dishonest journalists get their quotes, but I will never understand their need to deceive a more intellectually lazy group of bobbleheads who attempt to use the misinformation to form a undependable model. Rand called Friedman "a miserable ecclectic and an enemy of Objectism." Roubini may have predicted what many did years before he did. But he is committing a crime on a larger scale; a crime against philosophy with his examination of the past.

cheripickr

Beelze, YOU DA MANN!!! When are you gonna start that blog we all want to sponsor?

Ed Cone

If only the world had a gold standard in the years leading up to the Great Depression.

Oh, wait, never mind.

Philosophers aren't economists.

Beelzebubba

CP: it's a full time job supporting the government, humoring my wife and debunking the bullshit of the intellectual bodyguards of philosophical criminals. One blog or a thousand bloggers cannot undo what 130 years of socialist schools have done. Too many Bush/Cheney, Obama and already Palin stickers out there on vehicles purchased on a home equity line. We're swimming in shit, but I'm optimistic.

justcorbly

If we go back to those wonderful years of the gold standard, I suggest we adopt the other wonderful attributes of the time, like not allowing women to vote, allowing children to work in sweatshops, allowing assorted rodents to provide texture and flavor to our food, avoiding all those funky vaccines and just dealing with polio and influenza like manly men, and, of course, reveling in the delights of Jim Crow.

Oh, it was such a wonderful time.

(And that, Spag, is sarcasm.)

justcorbly

...130 years of socialist schools have done.

Rutherford B. Hayes was a socialist? Damn!

cheripicker

I hate it the many times you people expose my stupidity in here (hold your tongue RBM).

This time it's connecting the dots between gold, women's suffrage, eating rats and Jonas Salk. Dammit! But wait, don't tell me yet, it'll come. I just need a little time alone.

Fred Gregory

What is the best barometer of our economy? It's been coming on for oh so long. IBD has some ideas about what is plaguing the market.


Is It Any Wonder The Market Continues To Sink?

"Last Oct. 13, in trying to explain why the market had sold off 30% in six weeks, we acknowledged that the freeze-up of the financial system was a big concern. But we cited three other factors as well:

The imminent election of the most anti-capitalist politician ever nominated by a major party.

The possibility of a filibuster-proof Congress led by politicians who are almost as liberal.

A media establishment dedicated to the implementation of a liberal agenda, and the smothering of dissent wherever it arises.

No wonder, we said then, that panic had set in.

Today, as the market continues to sell off and we plumb 12-year lows, we wish we had a different explanation. But it still looks, as we said four months ago, like the U.S., which built the mightiest, most prosperous economy the world has ever known, is about to turn its back on the free-enterprise system that made it all possible.

How else would you explain all that's happened in a few short weeks? How else would you expect the stock market, where millions cast daily votes and which is still the best indicator of what the future holds, to act when:"

Well stay uninformed or RTWT.

BTW Ed has a low opinion of this magazine for those of you with a ring through your nose.


justcorbly

It was sarcasm, CP. But, the connection? They're all bad ideas.

Gold is valuable because we say it is. Going to a shiny pebble standard would be just as effective a long as we all agreed on the value of shiny pebbles.

cheripickr

Does that mean the Jimmy Carter years were kinda like the holocaust?

By the way, gold isn't valuable because we arbitrarily say it is. It's valuable because our wives say it is. When something is that universal and eternal, that is real value :)

Beelzebubba

please boys. drop your defensive posture and tautologies. use them on basketball threads. i wasn't advocating a return to a gold standard, just exposing a philosophical crime. Greenspan is as much of a Randian Objectivist as Bush was a Goldwater Conservative. Both did damage which can only be repaired by extensive replanting programs in the areas of the earth scorched by their irrational policies.

Fred Gregory

Stock Market Gives Obama’s First Month An 'F'

Pay Attention Dummies

"Clearly, it is way too early for any of the new stabilization and stimulus programs to have taken effect. Why then is the consensus so pessimistic? Certainly the political wrangling of the past month has dispelled optimism that President Obama can change the contentious nature of American politics. Both Democrats and Republicans have spurned Obama’s leadership. The free-for-all over the stimulus bill portrayed Congress in the worst possible light — no surprise there — and led Americans to view not only the process but the bill with utter skepticism. Delivering a 1000-page bill to our legislators just two hours before the signing deadline (and then going on a long-weekend holiday before signing it) was outrageous. The mortgage relief plan hasn’t been received much better. Most Americans (ninety two percent, by some estimates) pay their mortgages on time; they’re darned if they know why they should bail out their neighbors."

Fred Gregory

Waiting for February

Obama Sets Record: Last Month Was Worst January for Stock Market In 113 Years

winstongator

By the time Bush had been in office 2 months, the Dow was down 13%. Was that Bush's fault, or was it the tech bubble bursting. The markets reflect what people believe cumulative future profits are worth today. Do many banks (including most of the largest) have negative cumulative future profits because of Obama? They screwed themselves pretty well on their own. The reason bank stocks have tanked most recently is because Geithner's message to shareholders is there is no more bailout money going to shareholders. Many people referred to the market cap of some banks as the value of the 'Geithner put' - or how much more their stocks would be bailed out. The consensus is pessimistic, or more accurately frighteningly bleak, because balance sheets of corporations and households are in shambles. Both units were counting on inflated asset values - homes and the mortgages and bonds based on them. People who want to blame Obama for taking over coincidentally at the time when the inevitable crash is taking place are no different than the parents that notice their child's autism symptoms after a vaccine and are looking for someone to blame. FG, if Jenny McCarthy tells you Obama has caused the crash, are you going to believe her?

Ishmael

GWB handed Obama a burning fiddle and now Obama is supposed to create great music on it?
As a pragmatist who has watched, read, and learned about the whole nation going head over heels into debt and chanting "suckers!" to those who lived simply and paid their bills, I have to say that suffering does not become them. After 8 years (possibly 16) of being coddled, massaged and declared masters of the universe, the wall street and banking barons are bitter that Obama doesn't offer to hold their coats or lay down the red carpet.
Capitalism is dead, long live capitalism!
I suggest that when this Democratic made downturn visits your neighborhood or your workplace that you give a second thought to how your own habits, or whatever person or institution you chose to diefy has instead led to a reverse in fortune. Either you are mentally ready for it or you are not, but a large part of your survival will depend on how much you believe in the power of fellow humanity and not in the power of the allmighty dollar.

RecycleBill

Ishmael, great points, but just in case you're wrong I've put all my money in the same bank my great grandfather put his money in. As a matter of fact I found a few jars he forgot while I was digging.

New course offering: Whiskey Still 101. Classes start soon. PS. I've stockpiled lots of copper tubing, metal tanks and old radiators I can sell to those of you who don't already have the materials necessary for class.

RecycleBill

Clarification: Stills are ONLY to be made for the purpose of making fuel. What you fuel with your fuel is your choice.

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