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« I guess they're serious about NC | Main | Geeks making things happen »

Sep 24, 2008


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Jeffrey Sykes

McCain might have just lost my vote. Reminds me of Perot 1992. I don't want one America. I want compromise and legislation.

Somebody tell me who the Blue Dogs are so I can check them out. These other people have lost it.

Doug H

I guess the more cynical might say that he suspended his campaign so that his campaign advisers could get back to DC and lobby for their respective companies.


McCain doesn't hold a leadership position in Congress. He hasn't shown up to vote since April. What the hell does he think he'll accomplish?

David Hoggard

Not a good move. Not at all.

I just read David Letterman's quips over at Drudge (McCain was to have been on Letterman tonight)...

"He can't run the campaign because the economy is cratering? Fine, put in your second string quarterback, Sara Palin. Where is she?"

"What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"

This is the kind of stupid miscalculation that will only serve to push some folks off the fence.

Not a good move, Senator.


Obama answers Jim Lehrer's first question ..cut to a podium with no one standing behind it and two minutes of silence..... it would be awesomeTV drama

Brad Krantz

I believe it took great courage for Senator McCain to make this bold move. You liberals in the media will make smart-ass remarks like: "oh I guess we have a new definition of CUT and RUN" or "the part of John McCain at the Foreign Policy Debate Friday night will be played by Foreign Policy Expert Sarah Palin." Get over it. McCain just checkmated Barry. Election over.

And, of course, had Obama been the one to say he wasn't going to debate Friday night, it really WOULD have been true that he was posturing, using cheap-ass distraction tactics, and was unprepared. Right.


Of course Senator Obama said he would return to Washington if he could "be helpful". I guess he can't be helpful. That's the kind of president we need, someone of little or no use.

Get ready for another Krantz rant tomorrow for four hours and on into Friday. I'm sure the coverage will be more than fair. Remember the criticism of Bush during 9/11, that he waited in that classroom instead of taking action? Remember the criticism of Bush after Katrina, that he waited too long during a time of crisis? Obama isn't even going to deal with the crisis, nor does he apparently believe he can be helpful. But I suppose that's different and is a perspective that won't be presented.

Now if it were the other way around, McCain would be compared to Bush during those two crisis' and be accused of doing nothing, showing poor leadership during a crisis, etc.

I know it, you know it, the American people know it. But again, that card won't be played in the MSM or on the local radio talk show. But they both will claim to be fair and balanced. At least in one case, it isn't to be taken seriously. It's only entertainment.

Ged Maheux

What about today's events would be "fair" to McCain? The fact that he can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time? The fact that he'll cost Old Miss millions of dollars by postponing the debate? The fact that Palin's not ready for prime time yet so her debate gets pushed back 2 weeks? How about that he lied about the chronology of events this morning?

OH WAIT! I know! How about that McCain released a pre-taped 5 minute segment about his decisions regarding the most critical even in this campaign and in contrast Obama actually stood there for 30 minutes AND ANSWERED REPORTERS QUESTIONS! Yeah! That's it!

Tell us Sam, what would be "fair" to say about what McCain did today?

James Protzman

This is a very serious question.

Spag, do you actually believe the stuff you wrote or are you just mind-fucking everyone with commentary from your own private version of the Twilight Zone? I'm dead serious, I really do want to know, and I hope you'll answer me.

Because if you say yes, that is, if you honestly stand by the content of the comment you made at 8:33, everybody who posts here should absolutely understand that.

I can't tell if I want the answer to be yes or no. If you're just fucking with people, at least I'll be able to go along with the joke in good spirits. On the other hand, if you say you honestly stand by the comment, well, you'll be saving us both a lot of time in the future. Because I personally will never waste another second reading or responding to whatever you might have to say.

I'm not trying to be an asshole. I'm just trying to be clear. I turned 58 this week and am confronting the hard realization that I can't waste my time and my life on lost causes.


What are the odds, if he's successful in getting Friday's debate cancelled, that McCain will try to use the VP debate slot for the next presidentail debate and get the VP debate postponed into oblivion?

McCain's move strikes me as one more sudden and poorly considered decision, made in the hopes that voters would see him as Captain Courageous come to save the day. Some of the GOP faithful, accustomed as they are to following orders, will play along, but the rest of us won't fall for it. We all know that any contribution McCain wants to make to the bailout debate can be made from anywhere in the country. All he needs to do is call a news conference. If he's actually got legislation he wants to introduce -- a doubtful proposition -- his staff can do that, since they'd have written it anyway.

If McCain actually believes he holds a position of influence in the Senate, well... he hasn't been there since April and the place has got along without him.

Andy Vance

It's Dadaist thing, see? Nah, you squares will never get it.

Brad Krantz

What are the chances that John and Cindi McCain have ever taken out a mortgage for any of their homes?

Brad Krantz

About the same as John McCain actually knowing from personal experience what it's like to have to pay a medical bill.

Britt Whitmire

I think I have a pre-emptive Spag take:

Bush has just asked Obama to come to DC to help with the bailout. Since such a shitty president has asked for Obama's help, it must prove that Obama, himself, is a shitty candidate.


Former Republican Congressman Mickey Edwards summed it up nicely:

"Oh, brother. What idiot came up with this stunt? It ranks somewhere on the stupidity scale between plain silly and numbingly desperate. McCain and Obama are both members of the senate and they're both able to help craft a solution if they wish to do so without putting the presidential campaign on hold; after all, I’m sure congressional leaders would be willing to accept their calls if they have some important insights to impart. And while one of them will eventually become president, neither one is president yet, nor is either one a member of the congressional leadership; I’m confident that somehow the administration and the other 533 members of congress will be able to muddle through without tapping into the superior wisdom and intellect of their nominees. Sorry, john; it really sounds like you're afraid to debate. This sounds like the sort of ploy we used to use in junior high school elections."

Obama's been in touch with Congressional leaders throughout the week. Has McCain? Or did he wait until just now and start lurching about in a panic? Which is more "helpful"? Giving input remotely during negotiations, or busting in personally at the last minute when the deal is nearing completion?


McCain's already trying to bump the VP debate:

"McCain supporter Sen. Lindsey Graham tells CNN the McCain campaign is proposing to the Presidential Debate Commission and the Obama camp that if there's no bailout deal by Friday, the first presidential debate should take the place of the VP debate, currently scheduled for next Thursday, October 2 in St. Louis.

In this scenario, the vice presidential debate between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin would be rescheduled for a date yet to be determined, and take place in Oxford, Mississippi, currently slated to be the site of the first presidential faceoff this Friday."

Who was it around here that said Palin was "ballsy"? No press conferences, a couple of softball interviews, and now trying to duck the debates. Real ballsy.

Britt Whitmire

Oh, and I am glad that David Michael Letterman has revealed himself to be a left-wing tool.


Letterman's delightful rant is already on Youtube. It's especially nice when Dave explains that McCain called him personally to explain that he was cancelling because he was in a hurry to fly back to Washington, and then Dave cuts to a live feed of McCain getting made up on the set before going on with Katie Couric.

sean coon

sam can't elaborate further, he's too busy celebrating.


Nothing to elaborate on, girly boy. I heard you were a candidate for that website, but your girlfriend didn't qualify.

Looks like now Obama is also going to Washington. So now what do you all say? Nothing.

Hypocritical, left wing extremists for the most part.


Obama is going because the president ask him to show up to a meeting. That's not why McCain decided to go yesterday.


If you saw Katie Kouric's interview with Palin last night, you got a glimpse of how ready she is to debate. The first question was about Rick Davis' lobbying fees from Freddie Mac. Palin gave a very nice non-answer. Kouric asked a follow-up looking for more detail. After an awkwardly long pause, Palin gave the SAME ANSWER. It was sad, really.


McCain's latest antics show he is impulsive at best, dangerous at worst. I suppose his loyal voters can stay in their protective bunkers a little longer and deny the evidence but the prospect of a McCain/Palin administration scares me more than Bush ever did. Bush is a fool but McCain would be real trouble. Not only does he have the same bunch of advisors as Bush, but he has his own personality problems as evidenced by this episode of rashness.
Of course, some people are more frightened by the prospect of gay marriage and the possibility of "wealth redistribution". Socialism - thy name is bailout!
That reminds me....I've got to switch on the TV to keep informed on the latest "wealth distribution" scandal playing out. Something about well-connected Wall Street types who have a friend in Hank Paulson....


"Looks like now Obama is also going to Washington. So now what do you all say?"

I say nothing because I don't believe Obama will actually go to Washington. It's impossible - I mean, he hasn't even suspended his campaign or canceled the debates or anything! I heard he didn't even skip breakfast this morning! How can he do all those things and *still* go to Washington?! Impossible is what I say.

But seriously, he was explicitly asked by the President to attend a meeting. To try to equate this to McCain unilaterally flying off the handle is ridiculous.


It really is amazing to watch folks trying to defend McCain's judgment.

Somebody grab me some popcorn!


What's amazing is the excuses coming forward to defend Obama for now doing the same thing as McCain and going to Washington. Here's a clue for you all- Obama isn't campaigning right now anyhow, he's doing debate prep.

You guys are so predictable.


Obama said two weeks ago, on the day Lehman Brothers collapsed, that the fundamentals of the economy are strong, and then said yesterday that this is a historic economic crisis? Obama said he wanted to suspend the campaign? Obama said he wanted to push back the presidential debates? Obama said that he'd go to Washington and drop everything else, because he can only deal with one thing at a time?



"Obama isn't campaigning right now anyhow, he's doing debate prep"

McCain didn't suspend his "campaigning", he suspended his "campaign". The debate - and therefore any debate prep - is part of the campaign.

- suspending his campaign
- trying to postpone the presidential debate
- trying to postpone the VP debate
- going to Washington

- going to Washington

I suppose if I take a trip up to Washington tomorrow, I'm also "doing the same thing as McCain".

Ged Maheux


I'm curious if you will end up voting for McCain/Palin if, for example, Palin never gets to have a VP debate. Think about this for a minute. She has not participated in a real, honest to God press conference, and she might not debate. If that were to happen would you still support McCain/Palin for President and Vice President?


She will.

It's fun watching you guys squirm after Obama's about face on going to Washington and all of the junk you talked before he decided to follow McCain's lead.


Did you miss the part where Obama reached out to McCain's campaign to issue a joint statement, pal?

I'm sensing some kind of disconnect here...

Ged Maheux

You didn't answer my question Sam. I agree that she probably will debate, but what if she DIDN'T? Would you still throw your support behind her? That's all I'm trying to figure out. Would you risk the country on an unknown?


I love how Sam keeps skipping over the part where Bush requested the meeting with Obama, and ignores the bits about suspending campaigns and canceling debates. And somehow *we* are the ones squirming.

Fred Gregory

d:"It really is amazing to watch folks trying to defend McCain's judgment."

Watch this "d"


...Obama's about face on going to Washington and all of the junk you talked before he decided to follow McCain's lead.

Umm, that's not quite factual.


Typical of Obama to substitute a "joint statement" for action. Just words, just speeches.

Yesterday, Obama said the matter wasn't important enough to interfere with his schedule. Suddenly today he changes his mind. Seems to me that McCain was the one out front on this one, not Obama. But keep thinking what you will.

Palin will debate, Ged. If she didn't I couldn't vote for Biden now either, could I?

Ged Maheux

Excuse me Sam. Biden has been in numerous debates and you know it. Now you're just being an anti-intellectual jerk. I attempted to ask you a serious question on a very serious matter and you STILL avoid the question. There is little point in engaging you on any topic what-so-ever.

When you grow up and want to sit at the table with the rest of the adults, please feel free to let the rest of us know.


Sam, since you chose not to respond to my question (not unusual, I note) please explain how you can condemn a joint McCain-Obama statement as "just words" from Obama. Were the words not as much McCain's?

Please explain, too, what "action" McCain was up to, since he and Obama arrived in Washington pretty much at the same time. While you're at it, please expalin what Bush is doing to fix this, beyond changing the venue of ongoing Congressional talks from the Hill to the White House.


Ged, umm, if Palin isn't there, Biden won't be debating anyone either. You missed that. I'll type a little slower next time.

JC, what question and why are you changing the subject to Bush and what McCain is doing right now as if I have some personal knowledge?

The rest of you, read my post.

Duke of Denton

Bush the Dimmer, BushLite and BushDark at the same table. Is the government finally here to help us or should I be greasing my taterhole. More details later.

Brad Krantz

Is the conservative wing of the Republican party really willing to play chicken with the entire structure of the American economy by, to use an old phrase, being obstructionist while the clock is minutes before midnight? At this hour, it looks once more like blind-free-market-ideological-bullshit is more important to John Boehner & Co. than a real solution in a situation that is, to paraphrase John McCain, "beyond politics." It's never beyond politics, apparently.

10,000 foreclosures in the US every day. Last Thursday apparently a near collapse of the credit/banking system. A treasury secretary whose very credentials include running Goldman Sachs and a Fed Chairman whose life's work includes being an expert on the Depression (the one in the 1930's) sound the alarm that we are in unchartered waters.

If these Republicans are so damn worried about "protecting the taxpayers," I submit the best way to do that is to prevent a depression, massive unemployment, and the destruction of wealth FAR beyond $700 billion that goes along with all that. A few thousand points on the Dow is worth way more than $700 billion. Wanna risk all that and the horrible place in history you book for yourself by fiddling while Wall St. burned?


Sam, the question is in another thread. My fault.

But, there are a few questions lingering in my comment above to which you haven't responded. Specifically, why do you say Obama followed McCain's lead when Obama clearly went to D.C. at the president's invitation, while McCain did not? Why is a joint McCain-Obama statement something you wish to condemn Obama for? What did McCain do after he suspended his campaign, then appeared with Katie Couric and went to a Bill Clinton shindig, and only then flew to D.C. pretty much at the same time as Obama -- what did McCain do for his country today besides go to that silly meeting in the White House?

Fred Gregory

You people are brain dead. I suppose it's the kool-aid.

Here is somthing from the NY Times that I guess they wish they could
Put down their memory hole

Jeffrey Sykes

Now Fred, you know history began in January 2001.


1) a day earlier Obama didn't think the crisis was big enough to warrant him going to Washington, so the point about the president is irrelevant. He doesn't need Bush for anything.

2) I thought you were referring to the joint statement idea floated around by Obama before yesterday, not the actual one that took place yesterday AFTER the meeting.

3) McCain was not on the campaign trail yesterday. Both were at the Clinton event, not campaigning.

4) See my post. It's pretty clear that Obama is doing exactly what McCain is doing so far except for the debates. He and you guys all attacked it Wednesday, now that your guy is following suit for whatever reason, you are trying to rationalize it. Nobody on this site ever admits they are wrong. Well, Ged did the other day which I respect, but he's the only one.

That is the real elitism.


Krantz wrote: "Is the conservative wing of the Republican party really willing to play chicken with the entire structure of the American economy"

If it was that important, one would think that saving the economy would take precedence over a foreign policy debate, or is that somehow different?

Blame the Republicans for "obstruction" during a huge crisis, reward Obama for doing nothing. Is it that big of a crisis or is the magnitude of the crisis relative to the political players and your own allegiance?

Ed Cone

"It's pretty clear that Obama is doing exactly what McCain is doing so far except for the debates."

Oh, and except for pretending to suspend his campaign, while keeping the campaign running. Other than that, though...



1) McCain and Obama can add nothing positive to the talks in D.C. They hold no leadership positions in Congress. McCain's alleged campaign suspension was pure political showboating. Ditto Bush's invitation to them. If McCain actually believes he can contribute to the resolution of this crisis, he should explain how that works to the voters.

2) After declaring the suspension, McCain showed up on Katie Couric and then at the Clinton bash. If it walks like a duck....

3) Obama is not "following suit." The only thing Obama has done in tandem with McCain is accept Bush's invitation. Obama did not make a grandstand play about suspending his campaign. Obama has not blown off the debate. Obama has not made public noises about scuttling the talks unless he gets an agreement he likes.

4) A lot of righties are all excited about this because they conjured up this image of McCain riding into town to set things straight, just like John Wayne in some hoary old movie. Hence, they all keep talking about McCain's "action." But, to repeat, what does McCain intend to do that he alone can do? Explain why I shouldn't call him a poseur?

5) Whats elitists about what? (BTW, our side will happily take any members of the legitimate elite that your side wants to give up. We recognize and value achievement.)

6) All I know is that I woke up this morning and found out that the talks broke down because a bunch of far-right House GOP'ers walked out and that there's reason to believe it's a ploy to allow McCain to feign riding in to save the day. Figures, doesn't it.

Ged Maheux

Justcorbly, you are absolutely correct. McCain didn't ride into town to set things straight. he called off the debates so he could just sit with the President for 40 minutes, screwed things up at the end and then leave.

This wasn't about getting things done, it was about grandstanding. Pure and simple.


"We recognize and value achievement". Right, that's why you want to take money away from those who do both and give to those who don't. Elitism is about attitude, not wealth. That's where you guys miss the boat.

And all of you please stop this crap about House Republicans and McCain screwing things up. The Democrats could pass this bill if they want to in the House because it only requires a majority and they have a majority. The reality is that they are playing politics because they don't want to pass a bill without Republicans lest they get blamed for a boondoggle.


Elitism is about attitude, not wealth.

Well, I didn't say elitism has anything to do with wealth, did I? Leave it to righties to believe money is the mark of achievement.

But, I get that "attitude" bit. If you're smart, accomplished, and skilled, if you actually worked hard to, say, acquire some specialist knowledge, then you should work even harder at disguising all that and present yourself as someone who's just another Hockey Mom, because otherwise you make people feel bad. You know, like being born into one of the country's premier political families, going to Yale, benefiting from all that familiy wealth, and then presenting yourself like some west Texas cowboy. Yeah, that works.

When righties rant about eltitism, they're just telling us they're willing to settle for second-rate dumbed-down government.

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