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« More ague | Main | NAFTA reality check »

Feb 29, 2008

Comments

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Bubba

"Far Right Smear Machine"

From TPM, no less!

LOL!

As if.......

Gedeon Maheux

So, Bubba just what do you call this then? A critical issue that the entire election hinges on? A call for jingoism to be officially endorsed by the U.S. government?

If it looks like a smear, smells like a smear and acts like a smear... guess what. It's a smear. From a hypocrite no less who didn't think to wear his pin during the interview.

ishmael

When I was young and wanted to steal a treat from my sister, I would point to the sky and say "Look, there's Superman!" It always worked.
Just remember some politicians just want to steal your cookies.

Roch101

As if what, Bubba? As if it wasn't just the ultimate hight of hypocrisy for a congressman to criticize Obama for not wearing a flag pin when he himself is on the TV without one? As if we should ignore what we see because it isn't on Fox? As if this wasn't a smear attempt because it was put on the Intertubes by TPM? As if you simply must bring partisanship to bear on everything, even if all you have to offer is "Harumph?" As if what, Bubba?

Bubba

"As if what, Bubba?"

As if the typical blah blah, woof woof we get from you, TPM and your Usual suspect pals deserves to actually be taken seriously.

As to the rest of your nonsense, just buzz off.

justcorbly

For most of the 200-plus years of the nation's history, no one wore flag pins. I don't recall seeing flag pins in any portraits of the Founding Fathers. For that matter, I suspect they didn't even fly a flag at their homes. That kind of respect for the flag would be a welcome relief today when we see the flag prostituted on everything from bars to gas stations to advertising to right wingers who don't like what the country is really all about.

Gedeon Maheux

Bubba, if you're not going to contribute seriously to the discussion and resort to your tired old schtick, then would you *please* do the rest of us a favor and leave? This clip isn't nonsense, it perfectly illustrates the point of what's happening in this election. Something that Ed tried to highlight in the thread about Cunninham's McCain speech.

If you can't look beyond your closed-minded, partisan ways and see this clip for what it really is, then do the rest of us a favor and bow out gracefully for once, will you? Thanks.

Roch101

Bubba spewed: "As if the typical blah blah, woof woof we get from you..."

That's a great comment, Bubba. It's a great illustration of your intellectual prowess the way you took on the subject matter and offered a cogent refutation... Oh, wait. Nevermind.

"You kids get out of my yard!"

Dave Ribar

Another case of Baghdad Bubba gainsaying the bleeding obvious.

An important influence in Baghdad Bubba's "debating" style appear to be this video.

Roch101

"An important influence in Baghdad Bubba's "debating" style appear to be this video." -- Dave

No it's not.

ttube

Roch, Ged, Dave: don't feed the fucking trolls.

If you feed the fucking trolls, don't call animal control when they won't leave your front porch -- reap the hours of bullshit you sowed and take it like men.

I'm more tired of watching you losers engage Bubba and then whine about how he won't play fair than I am of Bubba himself. You're creating the problem. Fucking stop, already, and grow a brain.

Let him rant. It amounts to exactly nothing, until you respond. He's a miserable old coot who has nothing else to do in life. You want to be his mirror image? Keep it up.

Dave Ribar

Ttube:

We don't :)

Mick

I would give the same unsolicited advice when it comes to foul fingered lurkers as well :(

Gedeon Maheux

"Let him rant. It amounts to exactly nothing, until you respond. He's a miserable old coot who has nothing else to do in life. You want to be his mirror image? Keep it up."

I think you just left a cupcake on your doorstep.

Tony Wilkins

To the anonymous ttube who has all the world's knowledge wrapped up in one small head:
"It amounts to exactly nothing, until you respond."
Guess what Einstein, you just did respond.

ttube

Every site has trolls. The difference at edcone.com is that trolls are treated with respect and given a presumption of credibility. It's not commendable or genteel; it's idiocy. It suppresses and supplants decent debate and intelligent conversation. It's not Bubba's fault, it's you guys.

If you ask a known thief to hold your wallet because you're so concerned that everyone should be treated the same, I have to pay the taxes that pay the cop who tracks down the thief, gets your wallet back and gets him charged and convicted and punished.

So, stop. You're costing my ass in time and clogging my blogosphere with mass bullshit. Quit handing the guy a megaphone, and ostracize him like the dog-kicking, insight-lacking, borderline sociopathic serotonin-uptake-challenged kook that he is. That's the right thing to do. There's no need to dip into your feminine side and find any compassion here -- just do the right thing, and ignore the fucker.

Here, I'll model it for you by not responding to Tony.

Fred Gregory

Dan Abrams comes across as a smarmy little smug and arrogant asshole. The guest should have smelled the setup. We are sick of the in the tank left wing media Obamabots. He will always have an explanation that easily satisfies you on important issues. This is certainly not one of them, though.

Hey y'all hold
This

Roch101

What Ged said.

Tony Wilkins

Testicularless tube who chooses anonymous insults over the integrity it takes to sign your name:
Gotcha again.

And Ribar, it says something about you for smiling at him. At least you have the fortitude to identify yourself.

Sorry Ed. I'll try to refrain in the future. I feel like anonymous posters of the ttube kind diminish the integrity of the blogworld. Some things may need to be said without a name attached but not the insults that ttube hurls.

Ed Cone

The content of comments matters more than the name or pseudonym attached to the comments.

ttube is correct that responding to junk breeds more junk.

Odd that ttube's comments send you running for the smelling salts, while any amount of content-free vitriol passes without notice.

Tony Wilkins

Ed,
So you rate the substance of The Rhino's anonymous "Sound of the Beep" the same as the N&R's "Letters to the Editor" which requires a signature?
I never knew that about you.
Let's talk over a Tokyo Tower, I might find out more.
Have a good weekend Ed.

"running for the smelling salts", that really did make me laugh out loud.

Ed Cone

Tony, I'm sure there is a Latin name for the rhetorical misstep performed in your comment.

I'm not making broad claims about anonymity versus identity. In fact, I'm arguing against doing so, in favor of focusing on specific comments and commenters rather than categories.

A dumb comment or letter with a person's name on it is less valuable than a smart comment or beep without a real name.

In this case, an anonymous commenter made a valid point: arguing with someone who rarely elevates his game beyond "nuh-uh" is not only unproductive, it's often counterproductive.

mick

Opinion: valid points are diminished by repeated use of profanity.

justcorbly

When discussing the use of "real" names on the internet, we'd be more accurate to say "names that look real." The phone book is full of real names, and I could sign with any of them, or any combination thereof. None of them would be my name, but who would know?

A person who consistently signs off with a pseudonym is no more or no less anonymous than someone who consistently uses his or her real name. Unless we know the flesh-and-blood person, we form our opinion of each other based on what we say. For that purpose, a pseuodnym is just as identifying as a name that may or may nor be real.

Ian McDowell

While I think ttube has a valid point that he or she expresses better than some folks who type or link to their real names here, I share the suspicions about anonymous posting. Moreover, while I admire Ed's politesse, there are times when calling someone a douchebag or telling him to go fuck himself feels like a valid rhetorical tactic, but it's one that's only effective when you sign your real name to the vitriol.

However, my problem with the Sound of the Beep is not so much the anonymity as the puerile illiteracy. I do have a problem with their anonymous printed letters, but mainly because I'm cynical enough to suspect that some of them are written by staff members.

Bubba

"Guess what Einstein, you just did respond."

Imagine that!

"ttube is correct that responding to junk breeds more junk....."

......says the Junkmaster of Words himself.

justcorbly

It's been my observation that Bubba seldom attacks the central point of a comment, or responds to a direct question with a direct answer. Rather, he jumps on some peripheral point, and, if anyone responds, the whole conversation goes off into neverneverland.

It's basically the "Yeah, but your mother's ugly!" tactic.

Dave Dobson

mick poses:

Opinion: valid points are diminished by repeated use of profanity.

Partial Refutation: Unless said valid points are uttered by Samuel L. Jackson.

cf. Snakes on a Plane

RBM

Related:
See Dave Winer's post "Fear bombs of 2008".

Ian McDowell

Dave, I'd say that DEADWOOD's Al Swearengen is an even stronger counter-example. Of course, to swear like Al, you don't just drop the F-bomb in every sentence, but do so in elegant, complex, knotty sentences rife with archaic formulations that get their rhythms from Shakespeare and King James, and which tend to scan as iambic pentameter.

Bubba

"It's been my observation that Bubba seldom attacks the central point of a comment, or responds to a direct question with a direct answer."

The original premise of this thread got the response from me that it so clearly deserved.

The credibility of the originating source is a joke. I treated it as such.

You're entirely within your rights to follow blindly down the path so ably blazed by the proprietor of this blog and his Peanut Gallery.

It's not my problem to solve.

However, I reserve the right to ridicule the nonsense freely.

David Hoggard

Sound advice from several.

Let it be. And the next time you are tempted, you've got to let it be, again.

Fred Gregory

This is worth repeating . The PMSNBC jerk Abrams acted like a juvenile with his mocking, chortling intertview of the congressman. His hectoring Kingston for not wearing an American flag lapel pin during the show was silly to the point of absurdity. If he had worn one the Obamabot " newsman " would have made a big deal out of that also. Another one in the tank for Obama. That place is getting crowded.

Ed Cone

The congressman's point was about the great importance of wearing a flag pin, Fred. He made the non-issue an issue.

Once MSNBC made the stupid decision to give the stupid story airtime, the congressman's empty lapel was fair game.

Not every media person confesses his love as clearly as Matthews has for McCain, so it's hard to be sure of motivation. I think this was anti-stupid, not pro-Obama.

Bill Cunningham

Lyle H. Rossiter explains in his new book that:

Liberalism is a mental disorder

That conclusion is on full display at this blog.

Gedeon Maheux

If Liberalism is a mental disorder than I consider myself nuts along with some of the finest people in the world. There is nothing crazy or insane about wanting to care for your fellow man. There is nothing disturbing about protecting the Constitution of the United States. And there is certainly nothing mad about defending your country against a bunch of government loving, liberty stealing, minutia pushing right wing fat-cats who represent 1% of this country's population, but hold roughly 50% of the country's wealth.

I'm SO glad its 2008. The year when people wake up and take back their country from the likes of this ass-hat of a congressman from Georgia. Good riddance.

Ed Cone

Ged, biting on that comment makes me wonder if you don't like the taste of the hook.

Don't feed the trolls.

Gedeon Maheux

I'm getting tired of people using the "trolls" excuse not to defend one's position. Turn the other cheek heh? Let outlandish untruths be spread far and wide? Is that what we're all supposed to do? Just sit here and ignore until the sky falls? I'm sorry that I take offense at being told I have a mental disorder, but I do. It's bullshit and sometimes you need to call it like it is.

Fred Gregory

" Not every media person confesses his love as clearly as Matthews has for McCain, so it's hard to be sure of motivation "

Huh ?? What did that have to do with the rest of your comment or anything else on the post. It seemed so out of place and made no sense in the context of what had gone before. Maybe I am just obtuse.

BTW way is this the same Matthews that has a
Mancrush On Obama

Fred Gregory

Or the same Chris Matthews that said on Jay Leno " If you are in the room when Obama gives one of those speeches and you don't cry then you are not an American "

A Spiritual Experience ?

James

Good finds, Fred.

I used to watch Matthews a lot (not much any more) and found him to be three things.

1. Pretty smart
2. Willing to suck up to almost anyone
3. Too hungry for laughs

He may have done some tough questioning from time to time, but I can't remember it.

Fred Gregory

Ed,

Your righteous indignation about this flag lapel pin is about as genuine as the Cliton $3 dollar bill. I have NEVER questioned anyones patriotism for not wearing one. One of your slick little rhetorical gymnastic tricks is to have it both ways. It is true that some politicans have engaged in that type of attack. It either sticks or it doesn't. It stirs some honest emotions within in some people who are not bad people. I questioned why in a moment of crisis, Obama having proudly ( his unquestioned right ) declined to wear a flag lapel pin, hauled out eight large American flags as a backdrop for his Wright speech and you find offense.. oh shit you find it everywhere , no matter what is said that challenges your orthodoxy.

Fred Gregory

This thread has run its course but for the record I was making this argument before the
WSJ

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