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Apr 24, 2007


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It would be great to engage if the other side were as reasonable and high-minded as you are, Ed. But they usually aren't, and liberals have fallen into that trap way too many times. I think a lot of us are no longer giving them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to reasonable dialogue or compromise. Maybe that's what Blue NC is thinking, too.


Heath's a politician now and must represent his district first and BlueNC's agenda second. I'd sit here and say that he walked the moderate line to get elected, but in all honesty, his campaigning was downright conservative. This really doesn't suprise me, and really shouldn't surprise liberal leaning bloggers that he would be hang out with his homies at this conference. If Heath wants to be re-elected, he will continue to pander to the right. If he is forced into a corner, I'd see him crossing party lines before turning on his principles. That would make your take above, not only the right spin but the best spin.

Heath didn't fair too well in those last few road games he played in. In fact, he was downright horrible during his stint with the Deadskins.



That certainly is a very "reasonable and high minded" post about Shuler that Ed linked. I really like the "reasonable and high minded" comments about Rudy G. You guys really know your "reasonable and highminded" - ness. That is for sure.

The hardcore left has zero respect for "middle America". You may think that Blue NC et al will save the world from the evil Cons and Rs (neo or not) but in truth the hardcore left is the only vestige of hope the right has. I have every reason to believe the left wing of the Dem party will screw this up for you guys.

Ummmm just like our hard right screwed up the last few years.


The hardcore left has zero respect for "middle America". You may think that Blue NC et al will save the world from the evil Cons and Rs (neo or not) but in truth the hardcore left is the only vestige of hope the right has.

I think there's some truth to this.

But there's another truth as well. The free-market arm of the Republican Party in North Carolina has had free rein over the past decade to shape the public and media agenda. Civitas is one of their tools.

My questioning Heath's participation has three purposes. First is to focus on legitimate concerns about Civitas and its non-profit status. Second is to remind the good Congressman that he does, in fact, represent a broad spectrum of voters - progressives included. Third - and least likely to happen - is to encourage him not to attend the event.

The fact that we are talking about who Congressmen represent and how they should behave is mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned.

Robert P.

I think I personally would rather Heath attend the Western Conference of Presbyterians or something along those lines, than to attend the Civitas. In one case, the group consists of people who MIGHT be conservative, but who are also his constituents. In the other, the group consists of paid "consultants" whose only function is to attack Democratic goals and ideals.


How could any Republican or conservative organization have free reign in NC. Have the Dems not controlled state govt since the beginning of time?

Drama Queen

Ditto to the comments above.

I think, Ed, that you have misrepresented the concerns of the BlueNC community. It's not at all that Civitas is conservative. It's that the organization is illegitimately non-profit, among other things.

for the most part, the people at BlueNC have always accepted that Heath Shuler's fits his district and will not always vote progressive.


Calling Heath a conservative is too simplitisc. He is conservative on social issues but progressive/populist on economic issues. Civitas from what I can tell can care less about social issues and is business to promote free market rhetoric. That and they consistently violate or push the edge of violating our campaign laws.

And they have never and will never back a Democrat. In many ways they are the Fox News of North Carolina. They should not be legitimated by Shuler.

I am a little troubled that you do not seem to understand this issue that deeply. Maybe you should read some of the other posts on BlueNC on Civitas and Heath with an objective mind before you slam the position and tenor of one of those posts.


you mean like this...

"Its not Roy's fault
Submitted by Blue South on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 1:45pm.
a bunch of racist conservatives are thrilled that these "Upstanding Young Men" got off."

or this ... ahh forget it.

Why go there with an objective mind. It doesnt take long to see I would be quite lonely. Blue NC is what it is. Im cool with it.


I want to be clearerer... ok and more honester...

I did find some apparently sensible and fair minded folks amongst the rhetoric filled, talking point laced, name calling, diatribes about cheney, bush, pope, liddy, haliburton (didnt see it but i know its there), Tillman, etc.

But as I said, it is what it is and I'm cool with it. Not that what i think is important to BlueNC. All is well. Have fun storming the castle.


"How could any Republican or conservative organization have free reign in NC."

Don't disrupt Anglico's little fantasy, mick.

It's just revisionist NC political history at work.

I have to laugh when I read comments like these about the "evil, wicked" Civitas Institute coming from a "progressive".

As if......


I would like an answer to that question.

Ryan R.

I love ignorant comments like TarGator's...

Of course the Popes are unabashedly conservative and are a bastion of support for the NCGOP, but I don't think you can make such broad generalizations about all of Art's organizations. Using words like "never have and never will" seems a little off-base given that the group has only been in existence for two years.

I'm a college student, I went through their campaign course last semester, and I've gotta say, it was pretty even-handed in my opinion. Yes, I'm a conservative, but I learned more from people they brought like Matt Gross and Gary Pearce than some of the Republicans who taught.

Also, their monthly polls are filling a void that we've never had in this state... prior to them and the Elon polls, there really was no way to keep track of the political winds in NC. I don't care what your political persuasion is, that's one service that's benefiting everyone.

As far as Shuler being there this weekend, I was a little surprised when I saw him on the agenda too, but I'm really looking forward to hearing what he has to say. I'll try to get it on video if I can.


Free rein looks like this.

Connie Mack Jr

"How could any Republican or conservative organization have free reign in NC."* Bubba

Easy Bubba! Art pumps in 3 million dollars a year or more to control the GOP and you! So how does it feel to bought so cheap from a conservative political control freak?

Don't disrupt Anglico's little fantasy, mick.* Bubba

When was the last time Bubba that you have deal in reality on the net! You still think George Bush is winning in Iraq?

It's just revisionist NC political history at work.* Bubba

Bubba! You sound like some Republican conservative fool that still thinks the Republican party was founded by the Purtians.

I have to laugh when I read comments like these about the "evil, wicked" Civitas Institute coming from a "progressive".

As if......* Bubba

Okay Bubba! How about this comment coming from a constitutionist and a " real" Patriot. Let's face it Bubba, your strong point is not on the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence....And "if" is a problem with your warp Orwellian Republican mind set. Than consult Hillary husband on how to define " is".


Before addressing the finer points of the campaign, you need to know about another individual that I encountered in my quest for office. If you are running in North Carolina, it is imperative that you know of him. If you are located outside North Carolina, perhaps you have someone in your own state that is like him. His name is Art Pope.

Art Pope funds the John William Pope Civitas Institute, the Pope Center, Americans for Prosperity, the John Locke Foundation, the Carolina Journal, and the North Carolina Institute for Constitutional Law, to name a few organizations. The NC GOP is housed in the John William Pope, Sr. building, which was named after Art Pope’s father. The Civitas Institute is headed by Jack Hawke, a former chair of the NC GOP. The NC GOP is controlled by Art Pope. He and his groups also were instrumental in defeating Richard Morgan, Rick Eddins, David Miner and other “Morganistas,” all of whom were participants in the power-sharing deal in which Jim Black and Richard Morgan were made co-speakers of the state house. Although Jim Black was not defeated in the election, he recently pled guilty to federal and state corruption charges.

The three major radio stations in this area are owned by the Curtis Media Group, as well as some minor ones like State Government Radio. However, the hosts of such programs are either affiliated with the above groups or have visited these institutions. The same is true of the Sunday morning televisions shows, “NC Spin” and “At Issue,” on which employees’ of the above groups regularly appear. The guest/hosts then echo the ideological positions of these groups, which are funded by Art Pope. The groups do not articulate positions which are contrary to his positions; rather, the positions taken by these groups are his positions. People with a contrary view are not on the payroll.

During or shortly after my first campaign, someone that I talked with told me that the junior partner who ran for office lost his bid because "Art Pope did not approve," thereby suggesting that approval must first be obtained before running for office. I did not seek his approval either.

However, I noticed that two gubernatorial hopefuls in our state, former Justice Bob Orr and Professor Mike Munger, have both stated that they talked to Art Pope to solicit his approval before announcing their decision to seek the post as governor. Bob Orr is a Republican and Mike Munger is a Libertarian. Ask yourself, why must they obtain Art Pope’s approval if he is not in control of either group?

And then there is the lawsuit. Art Pope and his siblings conveyed their interests from variety stores, Variety Wholesalers, Inc., to a trust. Art Pope's brother married but passed away unexpectedly. The decedent's wife wants her share of the estate and also is seeking the deceased's share of the trust, which is worth approximately $50 million. These details have been recounted in the media and I am not privy to any additional information. However, the parties are fighting over a great deal of money. And both parties have money and are well represented. Unless a settlement is reached, this case will undoubtedly be appealed to the state Supreme Court. The suit was filed in 2004 and its now 2006. The Clerk of Court, who lost her bid for re-election, was supported by Art Pope when she first ran for office. When the case came before her, she ruled in favor of Art Pope and the case is now in court.

I have tried to be dispassionate about this individual and to stick to the facts that have been reported about him. I will keep my own conclusions about him to myself. However; you are free to judge for yourselves the kind of person that he is and the role that he plays in this state and what you will encounter if you, like me, do not seek out his approval.


Game of the Year in Raleigh

It's first down and the Blue team is on the Red's team 20 and seeking to go in. The Blue team Quarterback drops back and is sack by the Pope's red team safety John Hood in a red dog bliz.

2 nd Down! The Blue team Quarterback sneaks to the right and is stop cold by Duke's infamous linebacker deep thinking Pope's red team Jack Hawke.

3rd Down! The Blue team Quarterback sprints out to the left and stop by the Red Team umpire Sponge Bob Orr, the legal brains of the Pope defense red team.

4 th Down! Time out! The Pope red team water boy Bubba is rushing out to the field and trips over the chain marker and damages his brain again.

The Blue team crowd roars with approval as the Pope team Water boy Bubba is carried away by the Pope's red team transgender cheerleaders Sweet Foley and Patty McHenry.

The Pope red team Homecoming Queen is Virgina Foxx who beats out last year Pope Queen Liddy Dole who fails to show at the game as usual.

Go Bubba! Win in Iraq and Mars!


ummm....pay better attention regarding the attribution of quotes you cite.

Who do you think you are?

Ed, perhaps?


My favorite line from Connie's post/Rachel's writing:

"The NC GOP is controlled by Art Pope."

Once again, WAY too funny to even comment on!

Ryan R.

It's too bad they're not controlled by him, really...

Because then at least someone would be in control.

Connie Mack Jr

Who do you think you are?

Ed, perhaps?* Bubba

Nope! More like Coach K when piss off at Carolina.

My favorite line from Connie's post/Rachel's writing:

"The NC GOP is controlled by Art Pope."

Once again, WAY too funny to even comment on!* Bubba

Bubba! Have you any idea what 3 millions dollars looks like to a political wanna to be benchwarmer like you?

You have been bench from being the waterboy for the Big Red Pope machine and reduce to washing Art's political jock straps. Whatever you! Do not sniff them to make sure you are not the funniest dude in the Greensboro Pope blogging Republican community.

Correction Bubba! Do you still think that the 3 bears story is funny when Art tucks you in bed with Sam?

Screwy Hoolie

Thanks for paying attention, Ed.

Civitas is the home of the most partisan Republican fire-breathers, and their non-profit status disallows them from engaging in partisan operations. It'll have to wind up in court, I suppose, to make honest men of them. Shuler legitimizing this rabid group is a bad idea.

Ed Cone

Thnx, Screwy, for the explanation of the issues with Civitas.

The Blue NC posts were more about Shuler appearing with Dole and Giuliani, as if that's an inherently bad thing for him to do.


Ed sed:

The Blue NC posts were more about Shuler appearing with Dole and Giuliani, as if that's an inherently bad thing for him to do.

BlueNC posts sed:

I'm still waiting on an answer from Shuler's team regarding his inexplicable and deeply disturbing plans to legitimize North Carolina's most partisan and least truthful Republican group.
Heath does a good job voting his conscience on bills. But he has no business bringing the honor of his office to legitimize an organization that is laser-focused on destroying most of what he stands for.
Civitas is a "think tank" like George Bush is a competent president. They both twist reality to achieve their ideological agendas without any concern for integrity and the truth.
All across the nation, Democratic presidential candidates have wisely declined to participate in events sponsored by Fox News. Democratic Congressman should similarly decline to participate in events sponsored by Civitas. This organization stands against virtually everything Heath Shuler represents in terms of responsible governance and excellence in public service. They produce wildly biased polls on a regular basis. And their status as a non-profit organization deserves careful scrutiny by federal regulators. Indeed, Heath's appearance there will simply bolster their claims that they are not purely partisan Republicans.

You must have just been looking at the pictures.


Ed Cone

Your focus makes it seem to this reader at least that much of the problem is a Democrat appearing with Republicans/conservatives.

I cite two articles from Blue NC.

Headline from the first: "Heath Shuler Appearing With Elizabeth Dole At Right Wing Celebration, Why?"

Lede sentence of the other: "I'm sure Heath Shuler thinks he's doing the decent thing by appearing at a Civitas Conference featuring some of the most rabid right-wingnuts in the country..." Followed by a list of the folks speaking. Kicker: "Heath Shuler should say no to Civitas. Otherwise, he'll end up sharing the stage with this embarrassing candidate for president." [photo of Giuliani]


If nothing else, Civitas serves its purpose by keeping people like many of the fearful posters occupied and otherwise out of the way.

Good work, Art.

Keep them distracted and chasing their tails, like they're doing over the Schuler appearance.


"Because then at least someone would be in control."

That statement won't be operative after the first week in June.

Ryan R.

"That statement won't be operative after the first week in June."

Is there a third candidate I haven't heard about? 'Cause the way it looks now, 2008 will be a repeat of 2006 for the NCGOP, no matter who's put in charge.

Connie Mack Jr

Good work, Art.

Keep them distracted and chasing their tails* Bubba

Wait a minute Bubba Pope waterboy! You said Art does not control you!

And have you lately look at your Republican neo-con ass. It does not exist anymore like most white boy republican racists.


"Is there a third candidate I haven't heard about? 'Cause the way it looks now, 2008 will be a repeat of 2006 for the NCGOP, no matter who's put in charge."

Do you have any training/experience in grassroots level operations of the Republican Party in this state?

Connie Mack Jr

Do you have any training/experience in grassroots level operations of the Republican Party in this state?* Bubba

Here you go Bubba with your vast knowledge of GOP grassroots politics on the net. Have you consider another political party after 08?


As with the last chapter, allow me to state that I am not criticizing all Republicans everywhere. In fact, some of the NC GOP judicial candidates were quite cordial to me and even sought political advice from my campaign advisor in both the 2004 and 2006 campaigns. He gave it freely and without charge. I will not mention their names, but I appreciated the kindness that these individuals showed. To be fair, some of the Democratic candidates also were kind, whereas others were not. Kindness, no what side of the aisle it comes from, is always appreciated. My comments are confined to the NC GOP leadership, and in particular, Chairman of the NC GOP Ferrell Blount and his right hand man, Bill Peaslee, both of whom have now resigned from their positions.

Where do I begin? The dirty tricks were first felt during the campaign by the junior partner. In that campaign, four individuals emerged. I will identify them by the titles I have used to describe them. They are as follows:

1. The saboteur – He was ostensibly in charge of the position and was to assist all of the candidates. Early on, his true colors emerged and it was clear that he was there to make sure that none but the chosen candidate prevailed. He later emerged in my own campaign.

It started by his nasty email to me. It was my policy during the campaign to air the nasty emails I received and my responses to these people. After the 2004 campaign ended, he started. I chose to publish his hate mail. He then publicly defamed me and put his comments in his newsletter. He publishes his newsletter to those of like small mind who have taken it upon themselves to purge anyone from the party who dares to have an original thought that is not 110% in lockstep with them. They have succeeded and with any further success, I predict that the NC GOP will be down to four members meeting in a phone booth.

The saboteur re-emerged in my 2006 campaign. Someone needs to tell this fellow that I left the NC GOP and do not care what opinion he holds. Unfortunately, he seems to think that I should and felt impelled to send yet another nasty email message to me. In it, he threatened to go to the managing members of my law firm. When I published his message, with names of managing members and my employer omitted, he did just that.

In law, we have a principle known as tortious interference with contract. My employment had nothing to do with my campaign. Any views expressed by me are my own; I do not speak for my employer. They wanted to remain neutral in the campaign and rightly so. However, this individual deliberately attempted to interfere with my employment. If I lose my job because of the saboteur, he and others will be facing a lawsuit. Know and recognize him should you decide to run as a candidate for office in the NC GOP.

2. The mole – The mole participated in the campaign of the junior partner. In assembling a staff, my husband asked around who was recommended for employment as a webmaster. At the time, my husband was new to North Carolina and had not made connections with various folks. He did not know who was who. As a result, he made a few political calls and this was who was recommended. Little did he or the junior partner know that they had been set up.

I became suspicious when the mole produced a campaign list. I asked how he acquired it and the mole was very evasive. I wondered to myself if it had been acquired illegally. In looking back, I suspect that it was given to the mole in exchange for useful information about the campaign. The list turned out to be virtually useless.

However, when the campaign showed signs that it was very much alive, the mole went into action. He acquired the campaign website and changed the password so that the campaign could not access it. The mole engaged in other acts of behavior that were odd. When confronted, the mole denied that he had engaged in wrongdoing. Finally, it could not be ignored and events culminated in a very late night by the junior partner and my husband in which they confronted the mole and threatened to go to the police unless the mole resigned. He did.

That was not the end of the mole. He, too, emerged, during my 2004 campaign. His contribution was to call me “fat” and “ugly.” He later made an appearance in the 2006 campaign and called me a “retard” because of my appearance, which has been explained, following my surgeries. After such name-calling, it appears that the mole departed from the scene.

As an aside, the mole pled guilty to criminal charges stemming from his own failed political campaign before he became associated with the junior partner. The mole is a pathological liar. Know and recognize him if such a character surfaces in your own campaign.

3. The plant – Again, this figure emerged in the campaign of the junior partner. At various campaign events, this man would always show up. He claimed to be an unemployed nuclear engineer. However, he indicated that he was affiliated with some political outfit. This was true. His purpose was to learn about the workings of the campaign and report back. As with the saboteur, his mission was to make sure that the junior partner did not succeed in his quest for office. The plant never was really active in my campaign, but you need to be aware of this type.

4. The ringer – This was another candidate in the junior partner’s race. On the last day to file, before the deadline expired, in strolled the ringer to put his name on the ballot. Nothing wrong with being last to file as I did this in the 2004 campaign. The purpose was to see who signed up and whether I wanted to get in the race given my opponents.

The ringer, however, had absolutely no qualifications for office. He was not congressional material. So why was he in the race when there were three other people? Given the ringer’s conduct, it became obvious. The ringer had been told to run, not by God as he claimed, but by the NC GOP. His purpose was to divide the vote among the others running so that the NC GOP choice would succeed. He also engaged in acts of sabotage against the campaign by stealing signs. Be aware of this tactic.

As I stated, the saboteur, the mole, and to a lesser extent, the plant, emerged in my campaigns for office. Unfortunately, the tricks were not confined to these individuals and two more were added to the list. They are the fixer and the operative.

The fixer – during my 2006 campaign, my husband said he would attend a town meeting. I worked, but as we live in the town, he went to the meeting. While there, he encountered the fixer. The fixer, who seems to be a vertically-challenged individual, sought to intimidate my husband, who is six foot five inches tall (6’5”). Regardless of height, my husband is not the type of man who is intimidated anyone. As stated, he has spent time in prison. He knows what intimidation is all about.

The fixer approached my husband and indicated that he “fixed” problems for the NC GOP, much like a hitman for the Mafia, who is hired to threaten and intimidate someone who owes money the Mafia money and if they don’t pay, to break their legs or worse.

As I stated before, there was a move afoot to get at me by taking out my husband. Was this part of the effort? We will never know. But I do know that the intimidation did not stop there. He has emailed my husband constantly. My husband laughs it off and encourages him to send more outrageous emails, much like drawing an unwary animal into a trap. The fixer has fallen for it, but I do not like being threatened in this manner. What is the message that is sent? That someone like this will “fix” the situation unless I drop out of the race? That my husband or I are being followed to public events? That my husband is in his sights to be taken out?

The operative – In the first campaign, this seat was filled by another individual. His duty was confined to saying negative things about me, like defaming my employer or the type of work that I did. However, we came together during the fight for the chairmanship of the NC GOP in 2005. And he was very decent to me while I recuperated from my surgery, even bringing me a home-cooked meal. Nothing negative would be said against the other after this. So the NC GOP would have to turn elsewhere.

The NC GOP found a new operative called John Barbara. John Barbara appears to be an uneducated individual, employed as a grasscutter. However, his actions suggest that he is on the NC GOP payroll. Oh, I doubt that there is overt proof and those involved are not likely to ever admit it, but one never knows. Each time that I say to myself “they can’t be that stupid” the NC GOP manages to prove me wrong.

John Barbara’s mission was to discredit me. He launched a website devoted to attacks on me. He reviewed my campaign reports and filed complaints not only with other candidates who had received donations from the PAC that was created, but with other agencies, including the bar association. Oh, he was a coward and did not put his name on the complaint, but he claimed publicly that he jwas responsible. He did not stop there. He defamed my husband, who is not a public figure and who is not subject to the standard enunciated in New York Times v. Sullivan, supra. He was another who loudly predicted that I would only garner a small percentage of the vote. Again, how would he know that, unless he knew that the fix was in to make sure that the prediction came true?

Unfortunately, the NC GOP dirty tricks were not limited to the actions of the individuals I have outlined here. During my first run for office, I was subjected to a “whispering campaign” as well as automated telephone calls. The whispering campaign was instigated by the NC GOP who called members of the party to “spread the word” about me, stating that I was not from North Carolina and/or that I was “loony.”

This continued during the 2006 campaign in which operatives were hired to visit polling places and spread these lies. These operatives were even from as far away as Cherokee county! I know this for a fact as a client called to tell me. My husband encountered another operative when he went to vote and they were urging others not to vote for me because I was “loony.” Again, this person knew only what they were told and had never met me.

Others told me of the automated telephone calls by Elizabeth Dole and I still have her captured on tape endorsing the NC GOP candidate in the 2004 race. The NC GOP also was instrumental during the 2004 campaign in changing the fundraising rules to prevent people like me from raising any money. Calls were placed to certain congressional representatives that I had met to stop them from giving me recognition at an event at Duke. This did not work, but they tried anyway.

After my criticism of Mr. Robinson, I was subjected to a barrage of hate mail from the “freepers” as I call those who are regulars at the Free Republic website. This indicates that this group can be mobilized into action from outside the state. If you receive such hate mail from members of this group, recognize them, expose them for who and what they are and do not let their antics get to you.

But wait, there is more! Prior to the primary in 2006, the NC GOP sent out a series of email alerts, all of which targeted me. I was not even running in the primary and yet the email alerts were aimed at me. The NC GOP even ignored its own judicial candidates, who were running in the primary.

At approximately the same time, the NC GOP enlisted the services of two of its members, Attorney Steven Hedges of Greensboro and Representative David Almond of Stanly County. Attorney Hedges was among those who filed a frivolous bar complaint against me for failing to remove him from my email list. To his credit, he had the courage to identify himself. However, when we have an out-of-control district attorney in Durham who colludes with a laboratory to conceal exculpatory evidence, does not my refusal to remove someone from an email list seem slightly ridiculous in retrospect? If Attorney Hedges is really so concerned about the legal profession, he should seek to have the district attorney removed, not have someone like me sanctioned by the bar. And there is a button to remove himself, a button which he was instructed to press on numerous occasions, but chose to ignore.

Representative Almond raised a similar complaint. However, instead of filing a complaint with the state bar, he chose to file a complaint with the North Carolina Attorney General’s office. I had to take time out of my schedule and advise them of the facts and of Mr. Almond’s inability or unwillingness to remove himself via the unsubscribe button. Or perhaps he too did not have a browser that would allow this? It is difficult to believe that the people of Stanly County are represented by a person who thinks that he is best representing his constituents by filing a complaint against a candidate. The people deserve better and I hope that someone challenges him in the upcoming election.

After this kind of treatment, I concluded that the coordinated complaints, lies, intimidation, and orchestrated hate mail were tactics which were better suited to the Mafia than they were to a major political party. And I decided that if the NC GOP was going to act this way, then I was going to treat them this way. Henceforth, I regarded them as the NC GOP-Mafia and referred to them as such in my campaign.


Ryan R.

Do you have any training/experience in grassroots level operations of the Republican Party in this state?

Yes, that's why I'm asking... who's the dark horse that will not drive the party into the ground?


No dark horse, friend.

Are you a voting member at the State Convention?

Ryan R.

Yes, Bubba, I am... you do understand that I'm being sarcastic and implying that both candidates are bad for the party, correct? I'm just trying to figure out which one you're backing that you feel can accomplish something.


You can find out on June 2.

Are you in the Guilford Delegation?

Ryan R.

I am indeed.

Joe Killian


You may want to quit while you're ahead. You may be about ten minutes from him telling you that you know nothing and should shut up because you're under 30.

Ryan R.

Thanks for the heads-up.


"You may be about ten minutes from him telling you that you know nothing and should shut up because you're under 30."

No, Joe.....I only tell that to people like you who think they know something about everything, and become instant experts based on anecdotal information.

Besides, why would I tell you to shut up?

The more you talk about certain subjects you're not qualified to discuss, the more you prove my point.


So, Ryan....tell us why you think neither of the candidates are good for the party?

Ryan R.

This isn't the venue for it, Bubba, but briefly, all I have to say is - look at their records. Based on past performance, I don't feel that either one is particularly suited for the job.

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