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« The last taboos | Main | Dollar Bill »

Mar 25, 2007

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Alan Cone Bulluck

Socialism fails. Mandatory minimum wages destroy free markets. There will and must always be bums. It's nature. Liberal democrats are always working very hard to destroy and punish those who work hard and gain wealth. Aside from that, liberals don't work much at all.

Ed Cone

Federal minimum wage laws date back to 1938, and thus have been in force through many decades of prosperity and growth.

Also -- "bums?" This is a conversation about people with jobs.

Weak stuff, ACB.

Kirk D.

Liberals "don't work much at all"? I sincerely hope this was intended as a light hearted jibe, but it doesn't sound like it to me.

I have owned my own local business for over ten years. I employ seven people locally and 2 others internationally. I have to work nights and weekends to keep my business in the black and running smoothly and so do millions of other "liberals" who own their own small businesses. I happen to believe that business owners owe a responsibility to those whom they employ to pay a fair, decent and current wage. Otherwise, we'd still have sweatshops and child labor. When wages don't keep up with inflation, or simply the cost of living, and business owners cry "fowl!" simply because they have not found new ways to keep costs down or to increase revenues to pay an increased minimum wage, then things are rotten in Denmark.

And please don't give me the tripe about "liberal Democrats" working to "destroy and punish" people. If anyone has been working to punish people, its the GOP with their refusal to even CONSIDER raising the federal minium wage for over 10 years! In those ten years, small business owners have gotten some of the largest tax savings in history. Greensboro's hike may indeed be too much, but at least we're actually having a dialog about it.

Bubba

"Greensboro's hike may indeed be too much, but at least we're actually having a dialog about it."

As a small business owner, do you support it?

Do you provide the normal suite of benefits for your employees?

David Hill

If Greensboro enacts a minimum wage of $9.36 an hour, the city will be inundated with every illegal in the state. What will happen to our social services, schools and hospitals?
Be careful what you wish for.

Kirk D.

"Do you provide the normal suite of benefits for your employees?"

I dare say our benefits program is better than 75% of small businesses out there. It includes a great health plan (100% of the employee is covered) as well as a simple retirement plan.

As for do I support the hike that has been proposed for Greensboro, I don't support a wage hike of $9.36 per hour, but I welcome a modest hike into the $7.00 range. The current wage is a joke and is outdated.

Roch101

"What will happen to our social services, schools and hospitals?" -- David Hill

That's a good question. I imagine that likely results would include more stable homes; less despair, parents better able to support their households without second or third jobs and therefore, better able to participate in their children's school activities; and fewer people using hospital emergency rooms as their primary source of health care.

That's what I think would happen to our social services, schools and hospitals, but then again, I come to those opinions because I'm not distracted by shadow-boxing with a boogie man.

Cara Michele

Re: Minimum wage and social services

Some individuals and families in the Food Stamp and Medicaid programs would be affected, as would some individuals and families in voucher or grant-based housing programs. When you raise income, some people will lose benefits. Some of the benefits may be offset by the rise in income, some may not. (Medicaid is a good example. If your income rises and you lose Medicaid, but you don't have insurance, then you stand to lose much more than you gain.) I wonder if anyone has looked at how all this ties together? Will minimum wage workers who lose government food, medical and housing benefits make enough in increased income to help them, or will it hurt them? I'd like to know.

Billy The Blogging Poet

Where to begin? For starters I'm not much with math but the current NC minimum wage is $6.15 an hour so an increase to $9.36 falls short of a 50% increase I think. Also, $9.36 an hour is well below Greensboro's living wage of $13.50 per hour.

I don't know all the numbers but there are over 20,000 ADULTS living in Greensboro who work full time, many of them working 2-3 jobs at minimum wage.

Who thinks it's a good idea to subsidize companies like Walmart who pay minimum wage to most of their full time employees while our tax dollars are used to provide those same workers with food stamps, health care, welfare and other benefits? Are you aware that one Walmart store can have over 600 people working there?

ACB, What free markets are you referring to? Corporations spend billions of dollars bribing politicians to manipulate the markets. Corporate welfare runs rampant in this country. Even McDonald's restaurants get corporate welfare. Free markets are a great idea-- too bad they don't exist.

Since when did the definition of bum and poor become one in the same? An adult working a full time job can't be considered a bum unless the definition of bum has been changed to "poor worker." I thought bums were people who refuse to work. As for liberals not working, I'm a liberal and I've spent most of my life working 100 hour weeks to the point that I became hospitalized. That said: I guess that even though I've never gotten a dime from the government-- not even a student loan-- that I must be a bum simply because I'm poor. Tell me ACB, who paid for your college degree-- you, your family or a federal student loan?

Do all conservatives have such a poor grasp of the English language or is Alan Cone Bulluck the only stupid conservative?

Of note: I've spoken to several voter groups in the last few weeks and the conservative groups have been every bit as quick to sign the petitions as the liberal groups I've addressed. Jesus told us to help the poor-- aren't most conservatives in this country believers in the teachings of Jesus? Maybe ACB isn't really a true conservative after all. Maybe ACB is a hypocrite?

David Hill,
It's illegal for businesses to hire illegals at any price. Perhaps you could spend your time pointing out which businesses are hiring illegals so that you can actually be doing something productive.

Now can any of you come up with any REAL objections to raising Greensboro's minimum wage or are you simply upset that you might not find reason to feel superior to people who aren't as poor as you wish them to be?

Kirk D.
Thank you for providing a good benefit package and health care to your employees-- you are to be commended-- but considering the fact that Greensboro's living wage is 13.50 per hour do you really believe $7.00 per hour is enough? Do you have employees who go to a 2nd or 3rd job after they clock-out from working for you? Do you think a person who is working full time hours for someone else is capable of giving you 100%? Are your employees constantly late, tired, or inclined to make lots of stupid errors? Perhaps they're simply tired from working too many hours?

Look, instead of fighting why don't we look at the options we have available. We could continue the status quo and wait for the crime rate to increase. (Of course there is that pesky matter that the Greensboro Police Department is understaffed by 25% and has been sorely lacking in oversight for quite some time.) Since most of the crime is on my side of town I might could pick up some extra money for ferrying the crooks into more affluent neighborhoods. Perhaps ACB would like to leave his address so that I can drop the crooks off near his house?

We could put more and more poor people on welfare, right?

We could give out more food stamps?

We could start a petition to require the City of Greensboro to subsidize the wages of minimum wage workers so they would no longer be poor. (Who cares if ACB's taxes increase, right?)

I know, maybe we should simply bulldoze east Greensboro and other poor parts of town and run all the minimum wage workers out of town? Let Raleigh and Charlotte deal with them. (Who needs waiters, waitresses, cooks, dishwashers, fast food employees, or people to show us which isle the toilet paper has been moved to since our favorite stores are constantly being rearranged? I mean, who needs low wage workers anyway?)

I could start a new business helping the poor people get their Greensboro panhandler's licenses without all the hassle and put 20,000 more panhandlers on Greensboro's streets. I could even load these newly liscensed panhandlers into my van and drive them to the Country Club. Hey, even Irving Park would have their share of panhandlers that way. (Will golf for food!)

Look, here's the deal: Our current system is failing. As a member of the Greensboro Minimum Wage Board I think we should raise minimum wage to $9.36 per hour, maybe more but if you've got a better plan I'd love to hear it.

Anyone out there know a better way to solve the problems of Greensboro's poor workers? If you do then start a petition drive of your own and I'll happily be the first person to sign your petition. If you can convince me your idea is a better idea I'll even start circulating your petition in hopes of getting your ideas before the voters as well. I'll even go so far as to help you find a qualified lawyer to write up the petition all legal like.

If you've got a better plan then I want to help you make it work but if all you want to do is bitch then please be man enough to do it to my face so I can slap you upside your pointed little heads.

And if you'd like to sign my petition then please get in touch so I can make it easy for you to do so.

Billy The Blogging Poet

Cara Michele,
You raise some interesting points to which I simply don't have answers.

Cara Michele

Billy, I emailed Jill the link to my comment. I'm sure that someone, somewhere has already addressed the issues I raised, so hopefully she (or someone in the GMWC group) can post about it and educate us all. :)

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