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Feb 05, 2007


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sean coon

i love that "minus skeletons in the closet" quote. guiliani was a public adulterer, choosing to rub donna hanover's nose in his numerous public affairs on the back page of the post for years. and then he'd think nothing of making a ballgame to pimp his "loving relationship" with his son, andrew, as if nothing was going on and the kid wasn't being affected. the guy's a sick bastard.

and btw, coming from a former new yorker who lived in nyc during 9/11, rudy's "inspirational leadership" tag was nothing more than a case of right place, right time and not saying or doing something idiotic.

even bush was inspiring for a few weeks back then.


"...even bush was inspiring for a few weeks back then."

And who knows?

The same may even be said about you someday.


If we assume that Giuliani will repel most of the Christianists in the GOP, his candidacy might tell us how big the GOP really is without those folks. That just might be the most useful contribution Rudy will make.

Ed Cone

I disagree that Rudy was just in the right place at the right time after 9/11 -- there is more to leadership than showing up and not screwing up, and he deserves credit for his stalwart performance at a terrible time.

Kirk D.

Ed, would that include lying to the workers and the people of NYC about the air quality at ground zero? Because he and the department of health and human services continued to insist that all was well. People (and even resuce animals) are now paying the price.

Ed Cone

Yes, Kirk, I think that any such deception would have to be seen as noble and good.


The guy was steadfast and visible at a moment of real terror. It mattered. I'm not vouching for his every pronouncement.

I'm disheartened by the politics that ensued. But by the same token, I feel no need to tear down everything he did.

Kirk D.

Don't take my comment the wrong way Ed, I'm just trying to make a point. While he might have been a symbol for courage and determination to many, I feel that almost anyone would have served the same function if they had happened to be in the public view on 9/11.

Rudy is a two-faced liar who cheated on his wife in full public view, was in bed with one of the most corrupt men who worked for NYC (Bernie Kerik) and has used the memory of 9/11 shamelessly in his fight to advance the GOP's and the Bush administrations agenda and get rich while doing it.

But yeah, other than that, he's a great guy and quite the leader. Sorry, had to do it. :-)

sean coon

i agree wholeheartedly, kirk.

Ed Cone

Let me try one more time: I understand Rudy's liabilites (I'm the one who wrote the prediction last year that's linked in the post.)

And I take the stuff about air quality post-9/11 very seriously. It is important, and I have some personal connections to it as well in the form of loved ones who worked in the recovery effort and live in the immediate area.

I don't think the guy would be a good president. I don't think he'll get the job, for the reasons for which I don't like him and for the reasons (moderation on social issues) that I do. I think he's open to criticism on the issues I raised in my original post, and the issues you raise, too, and Bernie Kerik, and so on. And his weird eyeball thing won't help either.

But that doesn't mean Giuliani, for all his real flaws, never did anything good in his life. Having lived in NY for several years immediately prior to his election, I'm grateful for many of the changes in the city on his watch. And while I agree that situations do thrust greatness upon people, I felt his response to 9/11 was noteworthy and not something anyone could have done.

You ask me not to take your comment wrong. Fine, I'll take you at your word that it was not part of the destroy-at-all-costs mentality that defines politics. It just looked that way to me, and perhaps if you reread it you may see how I jumped to the conclusion.

Kirk D.

Fair enough. Fair enough.

sean coon

ok, so forget whether or not guiliani could be elected, ed.

do you think he would make a good president? based on your good experiences with him as your mayor, i mean.

Ed Cone

Sean, I have not changed my mind since my last comment in this thread: "I don't think the guy would be a good president."

sean coon

sorry, i got lost in the clarification verbiage.

Ed Cone

Huh. I guess you missed the "He is thin-skinned and does not wear well with people" in the original post, too.

sean coon

i find guiliani to be a piece of shit, so unfortunately, my filter for what you objectively think about his candidacy and your personal take on the man got twisted in the process of responding. is that enough of an explanation or do you need more?

sean coon

sorry, i had to drop this post into the thread for the record. it's a must read for people that know guiliani only because of 9/11.

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