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« Mappa mundi | Main | Edwards and the web »

Dec 26, 2006

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beth

Dial-up should be outlawed... especially when you have to visit the in-laws.

Jill Foster

Hi Ed - Happiest of New Years to you and yours! And fyi - to poke fun at all the '2006 babe blogger' lists, I tossed one out which you, humbly, were cited. Thanks for your great info and tenacity (and humor during ConvergeSouth). Be well (and for kicks, here you are: http://livingwithgeeks.wordpress.com/2006/12/26/fattest-ugliest-male-bloggers-of-2006-or-actually/ ).....Jill.

Mungowits

Yeah, Graham will surprise you pretty often.

Dial-up, on the other hand, NEVER surprises me.

Happy/merry, Ed!

Phil Melton

The idea that diversity in and of itself is a virtue is nonsense on stilts. If I'm dying of thirst and what I have on hand is lighter fluid, toilet bowl cleaner, and rubbing alcohol I will gladly trade my diversity of liquids for the singularity of the person who has only water. Russia was not served by the "diversity" that communism provided to the mix, neither was Italy by fascism, and neither is the community of world religion by the teaching of Mohammed.

Leila

PHil Melton, how much of the teaching of Mohammed have you actually read? And the passages you might have read, cherry-picked by your bigot friends, - have you compared them to select passages from Isaiah and other books of the Old Testament full of death and destruction?

I'm a Christian who grew up in the Middle East, exposed heavily to Islam in both Lebanon and Egypt. I am not afraid of the religion or its practitioners. In fact there's nothing that can bring me to tears like the call to prayer sounding out over an Arab city.

Turns out St. Francis of Assisi felt the same way. See December 25 New York Times op-ed piece here: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/25/opinion/25Cahill.html

Poor man, Mr. Melton, you must be very terrorized by the demons between your ears. I'm sure that nothing I could say would relieve you of your fear and bigotry, but let me just assert that you are delusional, as are the rest of the "clash of civilization" types howling over the airwaves these days. People do bad things but it's silly to blame their religions for it - if so, then what must we say about the religion of Timothy McVeigh, Jim Jones, Torquemada and Augusto Pinochet?

Bubba

"but let me just assert that you are delusional, as are the rest of the "clash of civilization" types howling over the airwaves these days. People do bad things but it's silly to blame their religions for it - if so, then what must we say about the religion of Timothy McVeigh, Jim Jones, Torquemada and Augusto Pinochet?"

Where shall we start with the deconstruction of this little example of denial?

Dr. Mary Johnson

Bubba, it deconstructs on its own.

As an observation, it did not take long for the "peace-on-earth" and "good-will towards men" that Saint Francis preached to deteriorate to name-calling in our local blogosphere.

Please note which "side" started it.

Leila

Yeah, I'm notoriously not as saintly as my blog persona. Ya got me there. I'm telling you, this Dove business is tough work, whenever I fall off of that pedestal I hear about it from the peanut gallery.

Y'all still got any real arguments to prove that them Muslims are comin' to getcha?

Why don't you read the Head HEeb's answer to Virgil Goode?

love you all and Happy New Year!

DrFrankLives

Lord knows, nobody has ever been killed, tortured, imprisoned or excluded from society in the name of Christ.

(ahem)

Bubba

"Lord knows, nobody has ever been killed, tortured, imprisoned or excluded from society in the name of Christ."

As far as "killed, imprisoned, or excluded from society", not in several centuries.

At what point will Islamic society entirely move totally away from middle age feudalism and the political, social, and economic mindset that accompanies those conditions?

At what point will the so called "moderate" Muslim population step up to reject the extremism that now permeates their faith like a plague?

And yes indeed, the Lord most certainly knows.....

Patrick

It looks like this might be headed nowhere good, but I just want to say that I thought Senator Graham's comments were just great. I think he meant religious "freedom" more precisely than "diversity", but either way, he showed again that he is among a small group of our national leaders who understand and can articulate the fundamental importance of liberty among the reasons our country exists. Even better, his comments occured in the midst of a debate about troop surging in Iraq in which Senators Graham and Dodd disagreed strongly about the issue, but did so rationally and with civility. It gives one hope that for a while at least we might actually have a deliberative legislature that participates in governing the country instead of just automatically agreeing or disagreeing with whatever the president says based on party. Rather than responding to the next question about his quixotic presidential campaign, I wish Senator Dodd had just said he was proud to be a fellow citizen of Lindsay Graham.

Mr. Melton's diatribe above is half-baked. To compare the utility of various liquids to the value of religious liberty in a nation of free people is just silly. If you were dying of hunger and needed to start a cooking fire, good luck with that water. Communist Russia and fascist Italy were hardly free societies, but would you deny Americans the right to hold or express communist or fascist philosophies? That didn't work out too well when Senator McCarthy tried it.

The question in the context of governance is not whether one believes the teachings of Mohammed, but whether one believes that one's fellow citizens have the right to believe the teachings of Mohammed. In that regard, the founding fathers, the leaders of whom were mostly deists of some sort and nothing at all like the fundamentalist Christianists of this era, thought "diversity" a high value.

Bubba

"The question in the context of governance is not whether one believes the teachings of Mohammed, but whether one believes that one's fellow citizens have the right to believe the teachings of Mohammed."

No, the question in the context of governance is whether those who believe the teachings of Mohammed tell them they have the right to commit acts of terror among infidel nations and people will be allowed to continue to their ultimate goal.

And by the way, it appears you missed the point of Mr. Melton's post.

Connie Mack Jr

At what point will Islamic society entirely move totally away from middle age feudalism and the political, social, and economic mindset that accompanies those conditions?*Bubba

Never Bubba unless you got a another 1300 years to burn in history.

At what point will the so called "moderate" Muslim population step up to reject the extremism that now permeates their faith like a plague?*Bubba

Never again Bubba. There is no such thing as moderate Muslins. Where did you get that silly idea? Just rich Tribal Kings as usual as it had been for the past 2000 years.

And yes indeed, the Lord most certainly knows.....* Bubba

Never again and again. I don't believe the Lord has got a dog in this religious fight.

Patrick

I don't think I did miss the point of Mr. Melton's post, Bubba. Like most people who have lived for a while, I'm pretty good at spotting intolerance and over-generalization. Unlike some, I just don't like it. If a point was missed, I think it was Mr. Melton missing Senator Graham's.

No one of any faith has the right to commit acts of terror. That is wholly unrelated, however, to whether American citizens have the right to practice Islam, which, by the way, is the question Sentor Graham was addressing. Maybe you missed it, but Senator Graham was responding to a member of congress who was disturbed that a newly-elected member of congress, who is a Muslim, and who, in apparent reliance on the Constitution's prohibition of religious tests for any office, swore the oath of office on the Koran in a ceremonial event. The disturbed Christianist member issued a statement urging Americans to "wake up" to the coming threat of hordes of Koran-swearers.

That admonition to "wake up" should strike a familiar chord with North Carolinians who remember the 1950 senate campaign when future Senators Willis Smith and Jesse Helms roused the slumbering white folk of the state to the rampant interracial dancing that would break out if Frank Porter Graham won that election. The identity of the threatening "other" changes from time to time, but the bigots, right down to the sorry words they use, pretty much stay the same.

Phil Melton

Leila's reaction to my post puts me in mind of Larry Miller's comment in his new book: "You know, there may be some things I disagree with about Arab society, but on the whole, you've got to admire the way they treat their women."

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