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« Hertz | Main | A stretch for Edwards »

Jul 26, 2006

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Ed Cone

An even more fundamental issue than the moronitude of various talk radio hosts is the propagation of a false meme, that Israel is (or might consider) perpetrating genocide.

Connie Mack Jr

that's all the Right usually has.... Belief, not founded
on fact and reality.

The Left prefers to deal with the Facts of this World,
not pie in the sky in the hereafter, beware of god
or he'll getcha, and all that

and Logic and Belief aren't even kissin' cousins* Xavier

Define " Left" and than define " Right" in political beliefs Xavier. Don't use the infamous conservative fact that the Right sat on the Right in the French People's Chambers, while the communists or " Left" sat to the left of the King Louie 14 th grave.

"The Left prefers to deal with the Facts of this World". That's hilarious. Methinks Xavier is confusing excessive clever word play for intelligence.* Sam

Sam! Define facts of the World and than define why you think Karl Rove and George Bush the 2nd is a treasure of excessive clever quotes and of above all intelligence in the 21 st century of unconstitutional pre- strike warfare.

You may use the Constitution as a former reference point in history and facts.

Xavier


sweet aching Jeeeeeeeezus, get a new game.

and pay closer attention

yes, Hannity, Rhodes, Boortz, et.al. are performers, entertainers -- clowns;
and yes, i've heard them all.

and where on heaven or earth would anyone get the idea that I think Messrs.
Rove and Bush are any brighter than their talk-radio mouthpieces.

Jesus bleeding christ.

Xavier

as for definitions of common words like "fact," etc.
buy a damned dictionary.

and for the poor, sensitive souls who think that everyone
thinks they're dumb, or is trying to make them feel
dumb, perhaps the "internets" ain't for you.

Chewie

Nice to see that you can regard this issue in a detached, objective, logical manner, Ed.

False meme, indeed.

Xavier


leaving aside the execrable term "meme,:
it seems to me that those who cannot
discuss the possibility of an Israeli
bent toward genocide as a "final solution"
to their "Palestinian problem
are refusing to consider the evidence
and fall back on a simplistic view:
"I support them; they're the good guys:
they couldn't possibly consider a
naughty thing."

hardly comports with the Judaic/Xtian/Islamic
tenet that all human beings are "fallen"
and that the material world is a wicked
and sinful place.

Ed Cone

Chewie, we've danced this dance before on the definition "racism." You are comfortable with malleable definitions; me, not so much.

I hear a radio host say that a country that is not committing genocide is committing genocide, it bothers me. To say that Israel is not committing genocide is a detached, objective, logical statement.

I have huge problems with the way Israel has treated the Palestinians, and I don't recoil from criticism of Israel. But saying that Israel is committing genocide, no matter how heinous an overreaction you perceive its current strategy to be, is contrafactual, and playing the Holocaust-hyprocrisy card in doing so is grotesque.

Xavier


genocide in slow motion .... by murder, displacement, and severe repression...
is still genocide.

the word "racism" is not applicable though, since Arabs and Jews are,
of course, members of the same race.

(we can leave aside how out-of-date classification of human beings
by race has become)

Ed Cone

I'm a critic of much Israeli policy toward the Palestinians, but it does not seem to be aimed at, or leading to, the extermination of the Palestinian people. Thus calling it "genocide in slow motion," rather than many other bad and truthful things one might call it, is inaccurate.

Xavier


earlier today I tried to make the point that there is lately
a tendency to waste time on semantic quibbles ...
in an attempt, I suspect, of deflecting attention
from the issue.

call it genocide, call it ethnic cleansing, call it Fred ...

but look at the evidence. look at the history.

Ed Cone

This is where we disagree, X.

Powerful words with explicit meanings should be used carefully and accurately.

To misuse the term 'genocide' invites long arguments that take the focus off the real problems.

It's not reasonable to expect supporters of Israel, or supporters of clear and honest discussion, to just shrug off the misuse of such a freighted word.

I agree that we should be focusing on the real issues at hand -- but it seems to me that Rhodes' rhetoric, not my reaction to it, is the problem in this instance.

Connie Mack Jr

Since every known political Radio and TV Talk show hosts have been accuse on this thread as being in drag. It appears that one can add Slick to the list after Dr Phil Coulter has revealed Slick's deep inner needs?

Columnist and author Ann Coulter last night told CNBC host Donny Deutsch that Bill Clinton has "some level of latent homosexuality,"

A transcript of the exchange follows:
#

DEUTSCH: Off the air, you were talking about Bill Clinton. Is there anything you want to say about Clinton? No?

COULTER: No.

DEUTSCH: OK. All right. Did you find him attractive? Was that what it was?

COULTER: No!

DEUTSCH: You don't find him attractive?

COULTER: No. OK, fine, I'll say it on air.

DEUTSCH: Most women find him attractive.

COULTER: No.

DEUTSCH: OK, say it on air.

COULTER: I think that sort of rampant promiscuity does show some level of latent homosexuality.

DEUTSCH: OK, I think you need to say that again. That Bill Clinton, you think on some level, has -- is a latent homosexual, is that what you're saying?

COULTER: Yeah. I mean, not sort of just completely anonymous -- I don't know if you read the Starr report, the rest of us were glued to it, I have many passages memorized. No, there was more plot and dialogue in a porno movie.

Xavier


alright, Mr Cone, agreed.

Genocide is a heavy, heavy word.

I intend to use it. And I stand by my use of it
when discussing the well-armed Israelis
versus the rag-tag Palestinians.

Xavier

and I also stand by my earlier observation:

talk-radio hosts are entertainers, performers, -- clowns,
and must always be taken "cum grano salis."

now, back to the facts.

Connie Mack Jr

DEUTSCH: OK. All right. Did you find him attractive? Was that what it was?

COULTER: No!
One futher note on this beauty contest in politics. ....Somehow, I can't find any reason why Coulter could be a judge in a beauty contest ...She would be like the Capt of the Titanic doing TV commericals on the deck during the first safe cross over promoting discounted return tickets back to Ireland.

DEUTSCH: You don't find him attractive?

COULTER: No. OK, fine, I'll say it on air.

DEUTSCH: Most women find him attractive.

COULTER: No.

Xavier


for very attractive close-up of shots of Ms/Mr Coulter,
try "CallingAllWingNuts.com".

Samuel Spagnola

I have to agree with Ed. I am not above criticism of Israel anymore than Pat Buchanan is, but this is not a genocide. If Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians, they could easily do this. History has shown that they have NOT tried to wipe them out. Quite the opposite, they have tried to make the peace. Every time they do, they get screwed by the Palestinian leadership and their terrorist friends. They have every right to seek out those committing acts of terror against them.

That said, I think Sharon is a war criminal for some of the stuff he did in the 80's. But that wasn't an act of genocide, just brutality.

RE: Ann Coulter- She is not an idiot, but she sure does say some idiotic things on occasion. "I think that sort of rampant promiscuity does show some level of latent homosexuality' Ann has had several boyfriends, she has never been married, so either the boyfriends weren't getting any, or she's a latent lesbian. When it comes to sexual issues, dollars to doughnuts she's a hypocrite...

Xavier


Please name one of Ms/Mr Coulter's boyfriends.

and if a person says enough idiotic things, isn't it reasonable
for others to think that person is an idiot?

but that's not important.

if I understand your argument, since Israel (armed by the U.S.)
could have already wiped out the Palestinians we are to assume
they will not, and have not considered it.

Xavier

I may not read enough Freud, but are you saying that if a man
has sex with a lot of women that means he really wants to
have sex with men ?

Xavier

hmmm... would the converse be true?\

if a man has sex with a lot of other men
he is a "latent heterosexual" actually
desiring sex with a woman?

David Wharton

I'm with Ed, too.

Amazing how a level head and a commitment to clear thought can rescue a thread that looked like it was in a death spiral.

Jordan

If the Palestinians and Hezbollah were to lay down their arms, then the war would end immediately. If the Israelis were to lay down theirs, then the war would end in a few months or so, after every Israeli man, woman, and child was slaughtered.

Hamas and Admadinejad have both committed themselves to the destruction of Israel. Meanwhile, every Israeli compromise is met with cries of "More!" and nothing in return (or more precisely, more extortion in return). The newly returned Gaza Strip became a launchpad for rockets in no time.

Samuel Spagnola

Ann Coulter has dated Bill Maher, Bob Guccione Jr, Dinesh D'Souza, artist James Tulley among others. I assume before she became famous, she had other boyfriends. I assume that at age 45, she is not a virgin.

And yes, smart people can say idiotic things if it helps them make money. In Coulter's case, it helps her sell books.

Xavier


well, there you have it. Her taste in sex partners is no better
than her taste in politicians.

Xavier


but wait, -- Annie often speaks of her devout, evangelical/fundamentalist
Xtianity ... and you say she's not a virgin. but, but, but-- she's never
been married. This is not possible.

Xavier


the "return" of the Gaza strip ... which the Palestinians hadn't asked for ...
oddly created a prison, surrounded by the IDF ....

Chewie

"You are comfortable with malleable definitions; me, not so much."

I guess you just want to gloss over, for the third time, the fact that I was never talking about only Israel, as you and Randi Rhodes are.

That's why I linked you to the wiki site, where I thought you might learn something about how the heinous "G" word you don't like to use has been in play for a long time as it applies to both sides in the conflict. You know, that conversation that you said didn't and shouldn't exist.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with malleable definitions so much as I am uncomfortable with you putting words in my mouth.

But, whatever. Keep those glasses on. They don't make you look smarter, but I'm sure they make the world look a whole lot simpler.

You're with Ed on what, David? Cropping the larger image of the discussion down to the pinpoint where you feel you have moral authority? It's not clear thought, but God, it's soap-opera manly. Gay men all over Greensboro are swooning.

Xavier


exactly. The definitions for these here words we be using
are found in any dictionary. Just look them up.

And yes, Ms Rhodes, et al., do trade in hyperbole. So what?

It's just us here. Let's talk about what Israel does with $500
per citizen in lethal arms.

Imagine what we in the U.S. could do with that.

David Wharton

Chewie, I agree with Ed that Israel is not committing genocide in Lebanon, and I like his not being distracted by / Coulter / who's smarter liberals or conservatives / etc. I also like his insistence on being clear about word meanings, but I don't know the whole history of his/your debate about the meaning of "racism."

I'm not sure I understand the other comments you addressed to me, though, especially the part about gay men swooning.

Next time we run into each other at Elisabeth's, maybe we should have a heart-to-heart.

E. Cone Levy

according to Bill Maher, whose standup act I saw live in Portland on Saturday, he was not getting it on with Ann Coulter very much because Republicans are "bad at sex"

Xavier

well, that's not much of a revelation that Republicans would be "bad at sex;"
they're not very good at governance or international politics either.

and the "racism" thing seems pretty simple too.... unless we're talking about
peoples of Different races, we can't be talking about racism.

Chewie

Beer and a slice and a hearty debate? Who could resist?

Xavier


make mine a Guinness

Connie Mack Jr

he was not getting it on with Ann Coulter very much because Republicans are "bad at sex"*E. Cone Levy

How does Bill know that? As far as I know he has never had a republican of either gender. Is it possible that he thought the Republicans were a former Libertarians?

Ann Coulter has dated Bill Maher, Bob Guccione Jr, Dinesh D'Souza, artist James Tulley among others. I assume before she became famous, she had other boyfriends. I assume that at age 45, she is not a virgin.* Sam

Wrong Sam! After reviewing Coulter starting Date lineup, one can surely see that she is still a virgin.

And yes, smart people can say idiotic things if it helps them make money. In Coulter's case, it helps her sell books.* Sam

Who said she was smart Sam? Has it ever occurred to you, that Coulter is in a constant state of PMS?

Please name one of Ms/Mr Coulter's boyfriends.* X

How about the Ex's X? Like the whole Law review class at her former law school which she was the chief editor. Do you really believe that she made it on own brains for that post?

Xavier


oh, come on, she's 45... you can go way more sexist than that:
maybe she's "going through the change" ... or --

she's just an asshole with a weak and lazy mind?

Xavier

and, if I recall, Mr Cone has pleaded for precision of language.
So, perhaps, le mot juste for Ms/Mr Coulter is: infamous.

David Hoggard

After I noticed this post had 86 comments, I just had to see what was going on. Come to find out, not much.

It didn't take that long to get through it all once I discovered I could simply skip over everything a couple of the more prolific "look-at-me" commenters offered every few minutes and not really miss a thing.

Ed Cone

X: "Genocide is a heavy, heavy word.

I intend to use it."

And I'm sure you'll have no problem if you arrested for robbery and assault, but the prosecutor uses the word "murder" in the charges.

Connie Mack Jr

X: "Genocide is a heavy, heavy word.

I intend to use it."* X

And I'm sure you'll have no problem if you arrested for robbery and assault, but the prosecutor uses the word "murder" in the charges.*Ed

The last time I check! The term has not been known to shoot or have any recording murder charge file against it. It is possible that the charge was level at the 1 st amendent and the defendent [ The Bill of Rights] is out on bond at the moment or being contested by the Bush Justice Department as a person of interest who might flee.

Bubba

"It didn't take that long to get through it all once I discovered I could simply skip over everything a couple of the more prolific 'look-at-me"" commenters offered every few minutes and not really miss a thing."

Actually, it appears that if you read one comment by a certain poster, you have essentially read them all, David.

johnb

Please don't post when you are inebriated Connie.

You only humiliate yourself and make your wife, the Supreme Court candidate, look like an even more foolish. I wonder occasionally how you manage to say things dumber than what you've said before but you always find a way.

Bless your heart.

Connie Mack Jr

Please don't post when you are inebriated Connie.* Want to be something on the net in downtown Cary

Wow Fruitloop! That is the 2 nd time you have call Max a confirmed Drunk on the net, besides at your award winning blogging site with one viewer including yourself. Why is it that you always go personal John B? Heck my good friend and loyal friend Bubba only goes personal when Ed makes a fool out of him at times and than Bubba blames me for making him go outrageous personally. What is it with you conservative repubs who can't stand freedom of speech and free expression that offends you about the 1 st amendment and the Bill of Rights by others on the net? Is it in the Gene pool or maybe it is a case of the water in Cary that promotes retardtion among your bold statements on the net?

Samuel Spagnola

It's not that Connie, it's just that so much of what you write is fragmented and incoherent. Sort of like Dennis Miller on crack...

johnb

Well, let's try this again. I'm also not a Republican Connie/Max.

Finding your wife's politics incomprehensible and your advocacy of her candidacy bizarre does not make me a Republican either.

As for your "rights", you have every right, as Weird Al once sang, "Dare to be stupid". What you do NOT have a right to do is force me to allow you to post on my blog. It's not a government owned or subsidized forum and as such you have no inherent "right" to post. I choose not to allow your lunacy and that is a violation of nothing.

You do require this though:

Virus Alert

This web site has been infested with Max. Max is a particularly obnoxious virus. Max is a virus type known as a self-replicating idiot. Max spawns multiple copies of it's creators stupidity on political blog sites across the state of North Carolina. The Max virus cannot be reprogrammed into a useful or intelligent application. The Max virus cannot be understood by sane and/or sober persons. The Max virus can only be deleted. Allowing the Max virus to survive will destroy all intelligent applications and communications on the host system.

The Max virus is incompatible with logic, reason, and a job.

Connie Mack Jr

What you do NOT have a right to do is force me to allow you to post on my blog.* Silly John B

Who cares Silly boy? Nobody reads it nor will you let anybody else comment on it...... Check own site and start counting son.....lol...

I'm also not a Republican Connie/Max.* John in Republican drag

Sure you are! Why do you have a pic of Ann Coulter above your bed and read Men in Marine Action by Jeff Gannon?

David Hoggard

I'm with you there, John (and Sam). I've never banned an IP before in nearly four years of blogging, but that guy would be the first.

The Xavier guy would be second after the above performance.

I'm sick of it.

Ed Cone

I've never banned anyone, either, but it is tempting with Connie. I just get tired of thread after thread being hijacked with incoherent and/or off-topic remarks -- to which people feel compelled to respond.

But I remain reluctant to ban, and as long as Rachel Hunter is running for office, her husband and spokescommenter seems like part of a larger story.

Connie Mack Jr

- to which people feel compelled to respond.

But I remain reluctant to ban, and as long as Rachel Hunter is running for office, her husband and spokescommenter seems like part of a larger story.* Ed

Ed! I am not the offical Spokescommenter for the campaign. I am simply responding to some repubs who feel they must attack me personally.

I will not comment anymore to make you feel better about the outrageous highjacking that is going on here which appears to draw various opinions into the discussion. I thought that is what you wanted for folks to do and express themselves in this blogging world. By the way, I got some great pics of John B tonight at a City council meeting and even was approach by one of his 5 foot midget associates who demanded that I take his pic also since he claim to fix things for the CIA or whatever.

Ed Cone

Connie, you are welcome to comment here. I'm just telling you, as have other readers, that long, disjointed, and off-topic comments don't command much interest. Perhaps if you put more effort into fewer comments, the results would be more productive.

gregrocker

All of these sensible comments from the right remind me what a great job you guys have done now that we handed over the keys to the US Government to y'all. Health care premiums for my brother's family have gone up 400% since 2000, gas has tripled since we all rallied around the Brilliant Leader to depose the despot we ourselves had put in place to keep the Shiites from becoming a regional nucleur superstate. Oh, and the Shiites in the Middle East are well on their way to becoming a regional nucleur superstate and there's nothing we can do about it, or anything, since 10 or 12 divisions of our Army are either in Iraq or going back soon, and their equipment is shot requiring another trillion to replace.
Especially inspiring has been the regligious devotion our Maximum Leader has inspired in the American people. Taken up with the Rapture of Christ, nearly 30% of the U.S. believes that we are entering end-times when their heroic leader will trigger the prophysied "War of Civilizations" that will turn the earth into a sea of fire. But as they will explain to you raptly, at the last minute a golden staircase will descend from heaven and Jesus will descend to take ONLY the believers back to heaven for virgins or whatever. Our Baptist preacher sadly reported that while we have supported Israel to trigger this great nuclear War of fire, they unfortunately won't be able to go with us to heaven unless they repent on the first step of the staircase.
Only New Orleans will perhaps be spared the fire which Leader's 30% base anxiously await in their rapture helmets. That is, of course, because it drowned, the only American city every lost by a US President. An unfortunate exception to otherwise stellar rule, but one which Leader's mum assured us has it "working out so much better" for the unfortunate poor people who once owned houses there, since they were able to live in a sports stadium in Houston before being scattered to the wind.

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