DarkTimes: A daily roundup of the hidden matter in the NYT opinion universe

Dowd ("Torturing the Facts") isn't buying what Condi is selling. Lede: "Our secretary of state's tortuous defense of supposedly nonexistent C.I.A. torture chambers in Eastern Europe was an acid flashback to Clintonian parsing."

Nut: "The president said he was opposed to torture and then effectively issued regulations to allow what any normal person - and certainly a victim - would consider torture. Alberto Gonzales et al. have defined torture deviancy downward to the point where it's hard to imagine what would count as torture. Under this administration, prisoners have been hung by their wrists and had electrodes attached to their genitals; they've been waterboarded, exposed to extreme heat and cold, and threatened with death - even accidentally killed."

Kicker: "As Condi used weasel words on torture, Hillary took a weaselly position on flag-burning...co-sponsoring a Republican bill making it illegal to desecrate the American flag...The senator doing Clintonian triangulating is just as transparent as the secretary doing Clintonian parsing.

"Speaking of silly masquerades, who does Judge Samuel Alito Jr. think he's fooling by presenting himself as a reasonable jurist? Here's a guy whose entire career seems to be based on interfering with women's lives. He wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade, condoned the strip search of a 10-year-old girl and belonged to a conservative alumni club that resisted the admission of women to Princeton.

"All in all, a bad week for women - sheer torture to watch."

Comments

[andy gould]

Poor Maureen. Maybe she should go back on the road and promote her book. I can think of an instance when torture is justified. Suppose a loved one, specifically a child, has been abducted. The kidnappers have a website and are broadcasting the abominable things they are doing to said child. The powers that be are unable to track the perpetrators. However, one has been apprehended- a definite psychopath. What would you have done as a parent to locate your child because there is a timetable? This is a rhetorical question. I personally find torture reprehensible but can think of exceptions. Anyone else?

[Zzyzx]

Andy, I think you're missing the larger point.

The question isn't whether any of us could imagine a situation where we would want to resort to torture. The question is, does it make sense as policy? When senior hands in the CIA break silence to go on record, you know a nerve's been hit. Is the possibility of extracting info in a certain instance worht the sacrifice of our moral authority, especially when so many experts tell us that information thus derived is unreliable? How about the increaced risk to our own, should they find themselves captives?

Think it through, man.

[andy gould]

Zz, I don't buy into the experts who claim "all" information derived from torture is unreliable. Most of it probably is. My threshold of pain is so low I would say anything. Again, my point is the truly psychopathic mind a la the sniper in Dirty Harry. I guess it all comes down to the ability of man to be inhumane to another man. It is a shame but sometimes I believe the end could justify the means. I hope I am never in a position to make that judgement.

[Easter Lemming Liberal News Digest]

Torture should be a criminal offense - period.

If an interrogator feels he needs to torture because of a time limit on sensitive material or the nature of the threat let a court decide if he was justified.