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Feb 10, 2013

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justcorbly

Libertopians seem unwilling to accept the validity of the aggregated will of many individuals, expressed via democratic government, as legitimate. (At least as I understand things.)

polifrog

@justcorbly

The will of the mob should be held in check least the mob may one day not be yours.

justcorbly

Frog, that sounds like a rejection of the basic principle of democratic government.

In turn, libertarianism seems, to me, in its rejection of that principle, to be the recipe for the mobbish soup that nourishes the few who inevitably rise to dominate everyone else. After all, *that* has been the fate of most people throughout most of history.

Steve Harrison

Froggie, I'm sure all the LGBT folks in NC who want to get married would agree with you on that.

prell

Yes, of course there are libertarian Democrats. There are also conservative Democrats, esp. in North Carolina and throughout the South. I'd be a lot more concerned with keeping them among the rank-and-file, than with gaining or retaining those with libertarian leanings. I guess you could call them DINOs. They're from the east, opposed Amendment One, aren't necessarily in the pro-Obama camp, and/or are registered Democrats because that's how their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents voted.

"Rebuild" seems a little strong, to me. "Rebrand," maybe? When I think of the NCDP, I still think of folks like Jim Black, Mike Easley, Marc Basnight, John Edwards, Dumplin', Michael Decker, Jim Hunt, etc. - political dinosaurs and corruptocrats.

Who are the rising "stars" in the party and are they homegrown or recent transplants from New England who reside in Cary? Where is the new blood? I believe Roy Cooper and Richard Moore's time has passed and they're also symbolic of the old guard, which hopefully died the day Dumplin' left office.

Andrew Brod

You're lumping Jim Hunt in with Jim Black and Mike Easley?

I think the NCDP, along with most NC Democrats, would be thrilled to find the next Jim Hunt.

polifrog
Frog, that sounds like a rejection of the basic principle of democratic government.
It is.

But then, that is the point of our representative republic.

prell

"You're lumping Jim Hunt in with Jim Black and Mike Easley?"

I'm pretty confident that I did, AB, but it was in the context of "political dinosaurs and corruptocrats."

I'd say a 75 year-old man who spent his entire adult life in politics and is constantly rolled out as the standard-bearer of the NCDP qualifies as a political dinosaur.

Andrew Brod

And my point was that the NCDP would love to have a few more like him.

Steve Harrison

Granted, Jim Hunt has a few miles on his tachometer. But he's impressed me more than once with his ability to focus on the relevant and articulate his message.

As far as him being "rolled out" by the Party, I have a feeling that's more his doing than anyone else. I get the distinct impression our former Governor isn't exactly thrilled with the way the Party has developed over the last few decades, and he's trying to use what influence he still has to fix our compass. Or is it sextant? Insert proper nautical navigational term.

justcorbly

>>"... that is the point of our representative republic."

It's a mechanical point. You can make direct democracy work only in a very small place. Say, an Athenian town square. (But, even, there, it didn't work for very long and it never worked for women, slaves, and foreigners.)

We have representative democracy because we need to implement an indirect democracy to cope with our size and our population. We do not have it because elected representatives are wiser beings who will lead us in the right direction. A good many of the Founders may have thought that, but it was hooey then and it's hooey now. If you fear a man because he's a member of the mob, why would you trust the same man when he manages to get himself elected to something?

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