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« Banksters | Main | Superawesome handbrains »

Jul 11, 2012


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Nice work Clary. Cool. There are lots of local memories tied up in that event. And... CSA families donated 803 pounds of food to Urban Ministries !


Oh and over $200,000 in Swim for Cancer moola as well. It was a good weekend!

Brian Clarey

I thought the evolution of the competitive strokes was fascinating. And I still can't do three butterfly strokes in a row. When I was a kid I thought you did it by jumping off the bottom of the pool.


Yep, I'm out on Fly as well... and breast ... and back ... well crap cant do more than a 25 of free either. :)

Good work you Elk you..... Mooo dude. See ya at the pool.

Brian Clarey

I think I'm going tonight, rain or shine. Got to talk my wife into it...


Still recovering from the weekend. May go Saturday if Ben isnt swimming in Charlotte. Still catching up on work!

Be prepared as our fantastic, volunteer run grill with very reasonable prices and fantastic food may not be open tonight.

Dont miss the big vote on Monday night! (Thats Elk code for dont miss the big vote on Monday night!).


I heard the meet was great
and the facility was awesome.

I will leave it at that.

Just wondering

Are blacks allowed in the Elks in Greensboro? I know the two previous cities in which I lived The Elks was code for "whites only".

Brian Clarey

They are.

David Wharton

Great piece, Brian. CSA is one of Greensboro's wonderfulest things, and coverage like yours has been long overdue. Thanks!


just wondering ... At least have the guts to use your real name when making such statements.


Cant stand it can ya Hartzman?

And JW, times they are a changin. You outta try to keep up.

Just wondering

Thanks Brian. Where I live in North Carolina blacks are excluded from the Elks Club.


"Cant stand it can ya Hartzman?"

And the bottom line on the place's income statement says what?


"And the bottom line on the place's income statement says what?"
The answer is! .... I think about what was expected.

What is the bottom line on say .... Bur Mil or Barber Park or Country Park. What is the estimated economic impact of same? And those are probably the best of the "bottom lines". Overall our parks lose MILLIONS. The GAC is a 12 months a year, indoor "park" with some serious economic impact. Was in there just last night and there was diving, swimming, water aerobics, swim lessons all at the same time. Again, as advertised.

In case anyone is interested... several days of national level diving competition coming in August. I am sure all the competitors and their families will be eating PBJ in the parking lot and staying in RVs over off 85/40. And of course commuting from all over the USA.

Oh and a small meet this weekend. Just a couple hundred for Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday from 7 (I think) southeastern states.

Better than predicted mayhaps? And I am hearing big rumors as well. We shall see.


"The answer is! .... I think about what was expected."

Big miss Mick.
"Was in there just last night and there was diving, swimming,
water aerobics, swim lessons all at the same time."

I hope you enjoy what you and others
have chosen to charge my kids who don't go.

How much more are we spending on the facility this year?

Congrats Mick.

You and yours got to fcuk every body else
into providing your entertainment.

Why not count the principal and interest into your equation?

Again, I hear great things about how it's going
and that is good for Greensboro,
but don't think it's free and was done above board.

How many not whites were there last night Mick?


How much of the debt for the pool and the science center etc...
was fiananced with LIBOR?

Nothing like short term financing
for long term committments.

Andrew Brod

"Financed with LIBOR"? Not sure what that means. LIBOR is a rate, not an instrument.

More precisely, it's a short-term interest rate. So if you're wondering if those facilities were financed with short-term bonds, well yes, that would be a scandal. Or would it? Given how low short-term rates have been, it might not have been crazy to get the super-low short-term rate and take one's chances on the re-up. But I'll bet they used long-term instruments, which should be easy to confirm without innuendo like this.

But if innuendo is what we're doing, let me join in: Did the city pay its bills in pennies? Nothing like maximizing one's transaction costs!

Some longer-term rates are expressed as LIBOR plus a risk premium. It would be neither surprising nor scandalous if the long-term bonds used to finance the pool and NSCG expansion were priced at LIBOR + x%.

That said, the LIBOR manipulation that seems to be drawing the most anger is the artificial lowering of interest-rate estimates, which was done in order to make certain British banks' balance sheets look less horrid than they really were. Anyone who invested in instruments tied to LIBOR got screwed, hence the outrage regarding pension funds and the like. But those who borrowed at LIBOR-influenced rates got a bonus. So it's possible that Greensboro got a scandalously good deal on its borrowing costs.

And no, George, this doesn't imply that I think the LIBOR scandal was okey-dokey.

Or that I was in on it.

Andrew Brod

A caveat. The above assumes that "x%" was invariant to the LIBOR manipulation. But it's quite possible that x, which was, after all, chosen by U.S. financial institutions and vetted by bond traders and bond markets, was effectively (if unconsciously) increased to offset the artificially low LIBOR rates.

After all, if you look at the overnight LIBOR rate, it tracked the federal-funds rate pretty closely even while the manipulations were going on.

So as outrageous as the manipulations were, my personal jury is still out regarding how much damage they actually did.

I probably should have made this point on the "Banksters" thread, but the conversation there has been mucked up with off-topic talk of fascism.



First, you shouldnt drink and type. When you are drunk you type mean things and call me a whore and such.

I am absolutely positive that you and yours go to or at least went to rec facilities, etc that I (and everyone else) help pay for as well. We all do. That is how it works. Yours played soccer and/or softball. Mine didnt.

Not a big fan of the reported "upgrades, etc" to the pool, amphitheater and what not. Just more CF. Happens all the time in gubmnet. Complaints here are age old and often legit.

Again, Hartzman yours played soccer and/or softball... mine didnt. Ever use public fields to play your games Hartzman? I hope not. Or shut up. Nice of you to shut the door after you went through though. Now, who got who's and what agin?

I am not doing any calculations Hartzman. I said I believe the pool is doing as expected. In the red, as a building, as expected. Why dont you ever include economic impact to the City in your equations? I prefer to include non-tangibles into my "equations" when it comes to recreational facilities. You dont, except apparently soccer and softball fields.

Who said it was free?

How many "not whites" were on the softball and/or soccer fields with your kids George? But I am glad you asked... because I knew some asshole would ask. So predictable is your script! I think only about 5-7 of the 30 or so swimmers were "non-white". In the therapy pool about 10 or so of the 30+ lessons, aerobics, etc were "non-white". Zero of the 4 divers were "non-white". I could not visually ascertain nor did I ask about religion or sexual orientation. Nor did I count employees but some were "non-white".

There is no denying that swimming/diving is a predominantly white sport. The GAC is well used and I have seen many "not whites" there from time to time. Perhaps the GAC will help change that somewhat. many organizations within the swim community are very proactive in this regard. ever hear of Make a Splash? No, of course not. You havent bothered have you? You see George, unlike you I frequent this facility and KNOW the answers and dont have to sit in my basement and theorize. I live it.

How many soccer and softball fields do you think the city and county built between the building of the "competitive" pools at Smith and Grimlsey in the 1970's and the construction of the GAC in 2011. Who got who's and what again?

Anything else?


I just dont get why folks like GH go ape shit over The GAC but never seem to mention or mind parks, rec centers, sportsplex, etc. They appear rather selective with their outrages. Wonder why?



So as outrageous as the manipulations were, my personal jury is still out regarding how much damage they actually did.

Private wealth redistribution is outrageous.
Public wealth redistribution is okey-dokey.

Neither are damaging...

Andrew Brod

Oh yuck. He came over to this thread now.

Billy Jones

And I'm the one who is accused of swinging at windmills?


I wis the science center and gac the best of luck and joy for those who go.

Also for locking in currntly low libor and overall financing rates and increasing the duration of our debt.

sal leone

I think mick makes valid points, we all have to pay for programs, our parents generation paid for us and we pay for the next, the way it goes in life. I will say that I was first not in favor of the GAC but it has been a positive impact. I have no kids but I am the kind of person that will always help and enjoy the fact that our youth enjoy their youth so I will pay a little extra in taxes. The point of youth in parks and on teams like swiming is that we keep them off the street, so if our libor rate goes up and I have to pay more on my property taxes like 2 cents to the 100 then good, kids need hope and not dope.

I like to add that the Yes Weekly paper is the Best paper in Greensboro, its fair and does not have one agenda, its politics, entertainment and local news. I am glad to see they put staples in the paper, nice move.


Why will you not answer my questions Hartzman? I answered yours.

Did/Do your kids play on publically funded fields?
How many "not whites" were playing?
Why no outrage over routine park, rec center bottom lines?
Why do you not include tax monies due to GAC attendance to the City in your equations?
How many public soccer and softball fields were built in between the Grimsley/Smith era pools and the GAC?

Want more?
Were you wrong or right with your predictions on economic impact, usage, attendance, etc of GAC?



"Predictions" that end in question marks are never right or wrong.



sal leone

I would say that Mick brings up some valid points in his own way. The GAC is getting more attendtion but the theory is the same for the parks dept. We as tax payers pay for the parks dept but it does not bring in what we put out, but its about the kids and quality of life. The GAC brings in money but does it bring in enough to cover its operation. The fact is that I accept the fact that we might lose some money, but if kids and people enjoy the parks dept and GAC then we won already. The City wins when people enjoy living here because of what the city offers. The problem with some conservatives is that they look at gloom and doom on all projects. The city is about providing for its people, and sometimes we have to put out some money. I agree with saving money where it can be saved but not on the backs of peoples enjoyment.

I got a question on wasting money, has anyone taking notice that our council wants to do another study on garbage, and not use the report from HDR, cost $50,000 more tax dollars, how about a special election for the arts center, cost $250,000, why a special election when we can push it to Nov 2013 during city elections. The city can save 300,000 in no time by voting down these ideas.


I saw you put up a post on Greensboro Gaurdian deleting xyz.

Kettle anyone?

I do love when rhetorical opponents have to insult
as opposed to prove.

Do you enjoy belittling people Mick and Roch?

If things don't go your way in real life,
do you try to degrade and humiliate like here?

You must have very good friendships with close others.
"Again, I hear great things about how it's going
and that is good for Greensboro,
but don't think it's free and was done above board."

See any question marks Roch?

As you told me correctly once,

"Man up" gentlemen



You threw the first stone dude with "Congrats Mick. You and yours got to fcuk every body else into providing your entertainment."
Man up gentleman.

Speaking of pots and kettles and such ... "If things don't go your way in real life,do you try to degrade and humiliate like here?" Please refer to your first comment noted above and explain how it relates to your second comment noted above.

Answer my questions. I answered yours.

More?..... Do you not like my questions or do you not like your answers?

I thought you knew your writing style was pretty much universally despised. My bad.


I believe I started with:

"I heard the meet was great
and the facility was awesome.

I will leave it at that."
I forgive you Mick.

David Hoggard

But you DIDN'T "leave it at that", George.
Mick needs no forgiving because he only responded in kind.

are the one

who should ask for

(Copying your style is tedious as hell. Why do you continue to put style above substance, especially since it impresses no one and infuriates most everyone and is distracting as all get out? I get trying to be different, but when such efforts just come off universally as simple weirdness, I'd do a re-think.)


"I'd do a re-think"


"Cant stand it can ya Hartzman?"

Miss that one did you David?

You just did the same thing only different.

You both may want to take an argument and debate class
at some point.

But between now and then,
please continue digging.



ever wondered
why Roch doesn't say much with me anymore



Here's one I heard from the nerds in debate class... never ask a question you dont already know the answer to.

Answer my questions. I answered yours.

Here's another... "Cant stand it can ya Hartzman" Was I wrong?


I am having a great time, thank you.


"never ask a question you dont already know the answer to."

Mabye in your case,
it may be "don't ask questions expecting an anwswer?"

Don't get caught expecting a reply Mick.

I would not have said so if I meant to offend.



Interesting point really.

The ethics thing with Wells went from the ethics line
through management and beyond (Toy Story),
by them not answering.

Maybe sometimes if you ask a question
and the answer side refuses to ever respond
including a total blackout as to who is on the other side of the curtain,
questions are self answered by not answering.


I did and do expect an answer from you. I extended the courtesy of answering your questions. And because you have been beaten you simply refuse to participate. Poor form. I have lost a measure of respect for you. You havent the balls to answer the same questions you asked me. You appear to me to be quite the passive/aggressive sore loser. But, it is OK because you and everyone else knows the answers to all of my questions. You are a hypocrite Hartzman.




Cant stand it can ya Hartzman?


George, why do you take intentional efforts to obfuscate your meaning? I mean, you may well be the next Maha Rishi, and I might be the modern Emporer Joseph II, but you write as if you have no conviction. Maybe you expect us to read between the lines (after lines after lines), but if we decline to speculate in your innuendo and take you at face value, what you communicate, on its face, is so obtuse as to be void of meaning.


hello Roch, who would have thought...

Wells Fargo received TARP money
but did not disclose secret loans from the Federal Reserve,
thus violating disclosure laws of Sarbanes Oxley
by misleading the public about material information.

True or False?

If you choose not to answer,
the answer is true.

David, Ed, Roch, Mick, Andrew Brod, Lex Alexander?

Sal, Brian Clarey, David Wharton?



Answer my questions. I answered yours.


"True or False?"

I dunno. You tell me.


"You tell me."

I just did Roch.

It is up to you to declare me a liar.

Man up.


I just read this thread and want my brain cells back.

David Wharton

George, since you put a question mark after my name, here's what I think of this thread. Brian Clarey wrote a fine article about City Meet, which I think is one of Greensboro's great athletic traditions. I think that because it's an event where over a thousand kids of all ages, abilities, and races compete and have a great time. CSA also holds the longest-running fundraiser for the American Cancer Society in the country.

I think City Meet was great at Lindley, and it's great at the Aquatic Center.

I also think it's lame -- disgusting, actually -- that the discussion of that event immediately devolved into a dreary recapitulation of the snide, bitter, and permanent argument that infects the comments on this blog. I didn't read much of it. Really, it's like a very bad Beckett play.

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