Good news on the downtown PAC: "To continue its work, the task force will evolve into a new entity or commission...It will include some task force members and city and elected leaders."

If they can come up with a solid plan, get private-sector money north of $20 million, and find a revenue stream from users (or hotel taxees), this thing could really happen.

Comments

[Don Moore]

They need private section money at 100%, then everybody will hush. It will be a tough battle until the economy is better.

[Ed Cone]

I understand the no-bonds argument, but what's the case against a user fee of some sort?

[SAL LEONE]

I support the arts center but rule one of any project, find out where your money will come from before you make designs. The second rule pick a location that way the bill will become more clear. There is no need for the commission because do they really have power, NO. The city can just hire a design company once the money is good to go.
The problem with govt is to many chiefs and no indians. This is the same problem with our waste. The council ask for RFP to find a cheap bidder, they get it and then complain and want to stay with what they have.

Leadership is not hard when you know how to lead.

[Triadwatch]

Why is city council reducing the downtown tax when in reality they should be talking about adding to the downtown tax if they are going to be directly benefitting from this endeavor?

[bubba]

"....but what's the case against a user fee of some sort?"

The case against "a user fee of some sort" is that NO case can be made FOR a user fee to pay for debt service, let alone capital, for any bond issue or sales tax proceeds. We won't even begin to discuss the standard operating deficit that's to be expected from a city owned and operated addition to the Matt Brown Moneyhole fiefdom.

Don's right...private sector money at 100%, and the thing needs to be privately owned and operated. You can appoint all the cheerleaders and yahoos you want to any sort of Perkins Project Pep Rally Team, but the basics won't change.

[Billy Jones]

Funny, shouldn't this have been step 1 all those months ago? Everything done to date has been wasted time money and public perception as is evident in every comment thread on every website, news article and blog thread on said subject.

I think we now have ample evidence of how entitled and inept Robbie and the Perkinites really are.

A PAC could be good for Greensboro-- a PAC railroaded and forced on the public might be the end of a lot of Greensboro's elitist developers and the local grifter class.

And seriously, why not 100% private money? That's how the vast majority of PACs have been build nationwide.

[Billy Jones]

Triadwatch asked, "Why is city council reducing the downtown tax when in reality they should be talking about adding to the downtown tax if they are going to be directly benefitting from this endeavor?"

Because, despite what Action Greensboro, DGI and the other downtown non profits would have you and I believe, Downtown business owners are very divided on the idea of a Downtown PAC and with Downtown business groups like DGI Does Not Represent Me popping up, the Perknites are being forced to fall on their swords.

[Ed Cone]

There's a strong case for a ticket fee, and one made often by people who question public funding -- it's a way of letting the people who enjoy the facility to help pay for it.

[Billy Jones]

With 100% private funding the ticket fees pay 100% of the cost. And the people who enjoy the facility pay 100% of the cost. So yes, there is a very strong case for ticket fees-- just not in the ways imagined by the Perkinites.

[tk solomon]

if you tax the ticket, it lowers the head count. theft by ballot box is the preferred method of our local dacoits.

[Fred Gregory]

Hear, hear what Sam sez

[bubba]

"There's a strong case for a ticket fee, and one made often by people who question public funding -- it's a way of letting the people who enjoy the facility to help pay for it."

And the cost/benefit/usage analysis that supports that can be found where?

Arnold's fervid Krugmaniac imagination?

[Ron]

Don said:

"They need private section money at 100%, then everybody will hush"

That certainly wasn't the case with the ballpark.....you forget this is Greensboro.....Citizens Against Virtually Everything. It's a knee jerk reaction to oppose anything big that moves this city forward....the "Greensboro Disease" God forbid Greensboro starts looking a little like Charlotte.

[Ed Cone]

Yeah, I'm not getting the opposition to the ticket fee. Getting people who actually use the thing to pay part of the freight seems both logical and fair.

[Billy Jones]

Ron,
The problem with the ballpark was exactly what happened to the ballpark-- they lied to us promising they would save the old ball park and now 8 years later it's worse than it ever was.

You Sir, are a lying sack of shit and if given the chance I will tell you to your chicken shit face.

[Sean]

the only problem with the fee is how much. i mean, in a city whose residents are more than willing to fork out cash for sports or dance clubs, there's a fine line with the cost of music acts that aren't tier one. as i said before, people will shell out dinero to see springsteen, but will they do the same for regional acts? the fee won't be too noticeable on a $75 - $200 act, but what about the smaller gigs?

[Brian]

Sean, you raise an interesting point. Should the ticket fee, if implemented, be a single, across the board fee, say $3.00, or should it be tiered based on the nature of the event? In other words, the same ticket fee charge for a community play versus a top-drawing concert? Carolina Theatre has a $1.00 restoration fee, which is minimal in my opinion. I just don't see any evidence that fees will keep people away from shows in significant numbers as some are claiming. I can tell you that the quality of the Coliseum and WMA has kept me from purchasing tix to see shows there - Pixies come to mind.

[Mad Dog]

Valid point, Sean. I get livid every time I have to pay a Ticketmaster fee. I don't mind paying postage if I want the tickets mailed. I wouldn't mind a ticket tax. But when you pile all of these on top of one another, it kinda gets out of hand.

MD

[Ron]

Billy it doesn't matter. The ballpark was built with private funds end of story. Even if this performing arts center were funded completely with private funds people would still complain like yourself.

[Sean]

ticketmaster is highway robbery with fees upwards of $7.50 per ticket. i guess the difference here is that, for the locals, we'd know that the money is helping pay for the venue -- kind of like a continuous donation to support the arts community. a $5.00 fee could probably be built into a tier one band/event ticket price without complaints, but for a showcase of more local acts?... i dunno. people don't seem to support local music if the total price is more than $7 - $10, even for a good number of bands. hopefully the promoters/venue would be smart enough to offset such ticket prices for smaller acts with meaty deals at nearby hotels/restaurants/bars, etc.

[David Hoggard]

Ron,

On that baseball thing: most of the "naysayers" weren't so much against the new as they were for the old. But they (I) knew that Greensboro would likely abandon WMS once the new was built. Might be no difference in your mind, but a huge difference to me.

I'd make the same protests/warnings against a new PAC if the Carolina Theater was at similar risk for oblivion. But fortunately the City doesn't own it, so it will likely, hopefully, be just fine. (Related: Anyone know where Keith Holliday stands on the PAC?)

And Ron - I could be wrong, but weren't you were posting under some other name during the baseball debates back in '03? Same "got my blinders on" boosterism. Same diction and style. Wish I could think of the name. We met a few times if I'm correct.

[Ed Cone]

Keith is on record supporting a downtown PAC, with a stated preference for the location near the Carolina.

[sittinginthemiddle]

A sad article on the food shortages faced by our local non profits this morning in the N & R. Is this really the time to be thinking about a 60 million dollar PAC when we have families standing in line begging for food? Really?

[bubba]

"Is this really the time to be thinking about a 60 million dollar PAC when we have families standing in line begging for food?"

Ah, but a "ticket fee" is the magic bullet that will pay for it!

Unless, of course, it won't.If it was within the realm of reason, we would have a cost/benefit/usage analysis that proves the point being. Either that, or they're still figuring out how they can juice the numbers to make it all look plausible.

We are all too aware of how that sort of thing works around here when there's a need to defraud the public on the use of public money to fund these projects that benefit the few at the expense of the many.

[David Hoggard]

Sad article indeed, middle. Sell that Bentley and purchase yourself something much less pretentious. Donate the difference to Mike Aiken & Co.

And I must say that is a touching sentiment coming from one who constantly ascribes the "Parasite" descriptor to the less fortunate.

[SAL LEONE]

I have to agree with Sittinginthemiddle, we need also remember those that can not afford to eat, in America this is a shame.

[Fec]

Is that Sal Leone's neck I see?

[sittinginthemiddle.]

" Sell that Bentley and purchase yourself something much less pretentious. Donate the difference to Mike Aiken & Co.

And I must say that is a touching sentiment coming from one who constantly ascribes the "Parasite" descriptor to the less fortunate."- Hoggard

Sorry Hoggard, I earned that Bentley and there is no guilt associated with the results. Obviously, your reading comprehension skills need attention. Whenever I have used the term Parasite it is always in the context of those that feed off the productive citizenry, not the less fortunate. Youe envy tactics really make you look like a lower class twat.

[Andrew Brod]

In the Michigan House, that language gets you banned... if you're a woman.

[Ed Cone]

My pretend Bentley drives like a dream.

[Triadwatch]

"Keith is on record supporting a downtown PAC, with a stated preference for the location near the Carolina."

If you can read between the lines and what he was quoted in paper he wants a piece of the pie as well

From article
"Keith Holliday, CEO of the downtown Carolina Theatre, said Wednesday that he favors the site near the Carolina.

The delay gives time to pursue adding a 220-seat studio theater on the third floor of his 1,100-seat historic venue, Holliday said. Several arts groups have said they need a venue that size.

“When you look around the country, you usually see performing arts centers with more than one venue,” he said. “We can do all three sizes in the same block for the price of one.”

Seeing him say doing all 3 for price of one is double talk for wanting a piece of the taxpayers money

[Ed Cone]

If we can do a more comprehensive plan for no additional public money, that would be great.

The Carolina has been a great asset to downtown and the whole city for generations.

[David Hoggard]

Bullshit, middle. You have even called me a 'Parasite' and I've never been on the public dole or anything close to it.

It is your term for anyone not like you, which, thankfully, is almost everyone.

Your empathy for the hungry above is the first inkling I've ever seen that you might actually have a heart. If you don't like the image you have groomed here, stop being all ass all of the time. Even bubba shows his human side from time to time, so it is not impossible to be pissed off at the world but demonstrate some humanity.

[sittinginthemiddle.]

"Bullshit, middle. You have even called me a 'Parasite' and I've never been on the public dole or anything close to it." - Hoggard

Hoggard, a parasite doesn't have to be the leech that lives off and sucks the life out of the host, it sometimes is the pathetic loser that advocates for the rights of the parasite to destroy the host. If the shoe fits......

[sittinginthemiddle.]

"My pretend Bentley drives like a dream."

And that is proof that you do not have to envy your neighbors success nor try to confiscate it for your own personal agenda, you can simply dream.

[SAL LEONE]

Lets be good to one another, Sittinginthemiddle, dont be to hard on David, the word parasite is harsh and I dont think he is one. I am glad you have a bentley and you earned it but lets remember respect.

Lets save the harsh treatment for the candidates,lol

[Billy Jones]

Hoggard saves the State of North Carolina $Millions of Taxpayer Dollars per year through his innovative business-- to accuse him of being any sort of a parasite simply shows how pathetic a parasite the anonymous coward shittinginhispants really is.

[Tony Wilkins]

Hogg and Sal, there is a reason shittinginthemiddle doesn't want to use his real name. I'll tell you about it the next time I see you.

[Billy Jones]

Tony wrote: "Hogg and Sal, there is a reason shittinginthemiddle doesn't want to use his real name. I'll tell you about it the next time I see you."

Cause he's a pathetic parasite himself?

[prell]

"Hogg and Sal, there is a reason shittinginthemiddle doesn't want to use his real name. I'll tell you about it the next time I see you."

You mean HER name, no?

[SAL LEONE]

I got a feeling I know who it is but I will respect that persons feelings. I just hope sittinginthemiddle can add to the blog, but without harsh words.

[prell]

"I got a feeling I know who it is but I will respect that persons feelings."

She's no doubt showed her sensitive side on Ed's blog as SITM and on Joe's as Alvin. Alvin Akers'd.

[David Hoggard]

There is always a reason, Tony. Rarely an honorable one. Give me a call, I'm in the book.

My burning question: What model Bentley does it drive?

(Thanks, Billy)

[Billy Jones]

David asked, "My burning question: What model Bentley does it drive?"

I think we used to call them, Hot Wheels. Or was it Matchbox?

[SAL LEONE]

I think a person loses value in his or her views when they don't ID themselves. If you can't stand behind what you say then why say it to start with.

[Ron]

Personally I like the Jaguar XJ Super V8. My mother has one of those :)

[Billy Jones]

Getting back on topic: Greensboro will never be home to events that really draw crowds from all over the country and go on for days on end even if we do get a PAC. The stuffed shirts downtown would die first.

And does Ron have a last name?

[Billy Jones]

PS. Those are the kinds of events that fill Hotel rooms.