"[T]he Gate City has had big dreams, made big investments and grown."

Winston-Salem Journal looks east with envy at Greensboro's Coliseum complex, entertainment business, and can-do spirit. 

Comments

[GlenwoodGSO]

Let them be envious, but I still maintain a healthy skepticism concerning the benefits of sports tourism especially regarding the long-term. We spend all this money and energy for, abstract and often exaggerated, economic impact but how do citizens directly gain? Does it increase the tax base, pump life into real estate, add *good* jobs, or provide a much needed service? Not really. It gives us a better reputation and adds value to our city in other ways though, I will concede that. I am just not entirely sold.

[Sue]

Old "decrepit" Greensboro. We just suck, right?

[Ron]

Well a poster on another blog said If Greensboro's efforts for a regional performing arts center fail, that opens the door for Winston-Salem, which happens to be the "city of the arts". All they'd have to do is use money from the sale of LJVM along with some private dollars and it becomes a reality in downtown Winston-Salem. Don't screw this up Greensboro.

[Billy Jones]

Ron, pitting wallets against Winston-Salem ain't going to sell a PAC to voters unless you can convince voters there's something in it for them and considering that even Downtown is split on this issue and the N&R knocked it not once but twice in the same day means you're going to have to pull off a miracle to make this happen for your bosses. How good are you at miracles, Ron?

[ron]

To Billy:

Yet you believe this PAC is some how going to be built on Philips Ave next to public housing (Claremont Homes) in east Greensboro.

[Billy Jones]

Ron, Apparently you're not as bright as you want us to believe you are. I suspect that 99% of the readers here at EdCone.com always knew what I've been up to. (Ed certainly did.) Now you can know too. Poor Ron, his boss is going to be so mad that he paid Ron all that money to sway public opinion and Ron wasn't the miracle worker he made himself out to be. I don't know who to feel the most empathy towards, Ron or the idiot who hired him.

[ron]

Its certainly not a bright idea to build a PAC near the ghetto. Honestly I don't know if your push for putting the PAC on Philips Ave was sarcasm or not. God would have to work overtime to perform a miracle to make that happen. But it seems you are the only one that supports a PAC in east Greensboro.

[ron]

Oh wait maybe that Miracle can happen after all.....look at a map and you will see that downtown is geographically in east Greensboro so why don't you support a downtown PAC Billy?

[Billy Jones]

Ron wrote: "Its certainly not a bright idea to build a PAC near the ghetto."

How racist and classist of you. "But if Greensboro's better-off population is so snobbish, classist and racist as to refuse to patronize an East Greensboro Performing Arts Center then none of Greensboro deserves to have a performing arts center no matter where they ultimately decide to locate it."

Sarcasm hardly describes my efforts. By pointing out how undeserved my neighborhood and many other neighborhoods have been for the last 50 years, myself and a few others have pretty much made sure that downtown will never get a PAC until the City Council lives up to its many broken promises to all of Greensboro's neighborhoods.

As for your efforts-- shill comes to mind.

[Billy Jones]

"undeserved" should have been under-served.

[ron]

playing the race card? Its not racist. Any are where there is public housing, there is a spike in crime. I don't care if black people, white people or green people live there. Those are the facts. Crime is higher in lower income areas and that does create a perception.

[Roch]

Greensboro's center city has one of the highest crime rates of any area in the city, higher than the area Billy is talking about. Fact, Jack.

[Billy Jones]

Damn, Ron, don't you just hate it when the real facts make you out to be a liar?

ROTFLMAO!!!

[Brian]

No dog in this ron v. billy thing, but the crime rate image conclusion needs more context. It shows highest crime rate per 1,000 residents. It makes sense then that the part of town with the highest amount of commercial and entertainment activity coincides with an area in which very few people live.

[Roch]

I have no dog either and you make a good point, Brian.

There are 2,409 people in the census tract that comprises the center city; 4,056 for the census tract that includes Billy'y location.

Multiplying the crime rate per thousand people in each tract will give us the range of the absolute number of crimes.

So:

Center City had between 278 and 573 part 1 crimes in 2011
Billy's location had between 151 and 287.

Whether you look at the rate or absolute numbers, Ron's presumption was incorrect.

(Showing my math:
Downtown: 2.4 x [116 to 239]
Billy's location: 4.1 x [37 to 70])

[sittinginthemiddle]

The absolute beauty of this is that it will not be built at all, thankfully.

[Brian]

Does that make our center city any less safe than other cities which have built a performing arts center in downtown? No idea and not going to waste time looking for the info, if safety or presence of crime was a valid reason to not open a PAC, it would also be a reason to not open a bank, a retail store, a restaurant, etc. Just saying, it doesn't seem to be stopping revitalization of downtown, which will continue in spite of the presence of criminal activity. That being said, a safer downtown would be desirable.

[Mick]

Those stats seem odd to me. Who here would rather walk down Elm at 1 AM as compared to say Phillips Ave? Billy,... you? Is it simply perception fueled by ignorance or is it some sort of statistical wizardry?

Oh, BTW.... I dont really care. My "downtownitis" is flaring again.

[Sean]

using the census to define downtown population in regards to crime is a misnomer, as the vast majority of people out and about on high-crime nights aren't residents. i'm not quite sure how to square that variable with east greensboro's population/visitors, but in any event, the point seems relatively moot. cities tend to develop outwards, culturally, from their downtowns. that axiom is the same whether one argues for a PAC in irving park, east greensboro or any other neighborhood.

[Billy Jones]

Like I said, "pitting wallets against Winston-Salem ain't going to sell a PAC to voters unless you can convince voters there's something in it for them."

Nothing Ron has said to date changes that fact. What's in it for us?

And jobs changing sheets on hotel beds, waiting tables in downtown restaurants or serving drinks are not going to turn around Greensboro's economy. The rich go to Broadway shows on Broadway because it's about taking time off and going somewhere. The poor go to shows at the Livestock Playhouse because they can't afford Broadway ticket prices.

[Roch]

"Does that make our center city any less safe than other cities which have built a performing arts center in downtown? No idea and not going to waste time looking for the info, if safety or presence of crime was a valid reason to not open a PAC"... yadda, yadda, yadda -- Brian

I think the reason it was interjected into this conversation has escaped you.

[Roch]

"using the census to define downtown population in regards to crime is a misnomer" -- Sean

Take it up with the GPD, it's their map.

[Sean]

yeah, i'll do that. right away.

[Billy Jones]

Ron? Ron? Anyone seen Ron?

[ron]

Billy give up your east Greensboro dreams. A Performing Arts Center will never be built on Philips Ave.

[Ed Cone]

Ron, obviously the downtown PAC effort is focused on a downtown PAC. That's the topic under discussion.

And yet you keep biting the hook every time Billy casts it in the water.

The first couple of lessons here may be helpful.

[Billy Jones]

Ron, give up your downtown dreams. A Performing Arts Center will never be built downtown.

"Downtown's movers and shakers thought Greensboro didn't care about War Memorial Stadium so they failed to keep their promise to rennovate the memorial to the sons, fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers who died to keep us free. And in doing so they lost the public's trust."

Sometimes a separate issue affects future outcomes in ways the politricksters never thought possible. This is one of those times.

[Billy Jones]

Ron, like I said...

Looks like you'll be needing a new gig sooner than you thought.