UPDATE WEDS AM A note from Ben Holder:

Beyond the shadow of any doubt, I acted like an idiot last night at the council meeting and I was wrong for doing so. I want to apologize to the entire council, staff and people in attendance for my behavior. I was trying to make a joke and it got out of hand quickly. I used the "Personnel Law" response when I was asked to state my name in protest. I did this because of my strong belief, which I share with Councilwoman Vaughan and others, that the city needs to simply follow the law and stop working so hard to limit the release of public information. However, there is no excuse for my actions and nothing good was accomplished. For that, I am deeply sorry. I absolutely understand and treasure the speakers from the floor portion of the council meetings and have used the allotted three minutes in the past to get a lot of things done. Last night, I trampled on something that is precious and showed disrespect to the tradition of debate and discourse. I would like to thank Councilwoman Johnson and City Manager Denise Turner for attempting to answer my questions when they did not have too. My actions were inexcusable and I most definitely could have done better. Again, I was wrong.

Sincerely,

Ben Holder

To which Robbie Perkins quickly replies, "Apology accepted. Let’s move on."

/update

Speaking to the City Council just now, Ben Holder refuses to give his name, saying that's a personnel matter -- a reference to the City's opaque public records policy --  then says "Janet, Miss Jackson, if you're nasty," a reference to this.

The Mayor cuts his mic, asks him not to do this to his children...Holder keeps talking...Yvonne Johnson tries to intervene gently, DTR tells him he got something via email...Holder is escorted away by security, shouts that this means war, and gives a Rick Flair "woooo."

UPDATE: Holder tells me that it's amazing they follow those procedures when they don't follow other procedures, that "they play this dumb game and ignore the real issues." Also, that he's going to make a huge public records request, and that it's funny that Perkins said "Mr. Holder, state your name."

Comments

[Fred Gregory]

I miss Bill Knight

[prell]

"I miss Bill Knight"

Yeah, he was a peach.

[Ben Holder]

Ed, kids are fine and laughing..eating pizza as I write this. I checked my email and have NOTHING from DTR. Cameron said "we worked our butts off for Robbie Perkins to get him elected and he doesn't do anything for us."

[Lex]

Well, it IS funny that Perkins said that. He could have just said something like, "Let the record reflect that the speaker is Mr. Ben Holder; Madam Clerk, his address will be available from public records." Or even, "Troublemaker in the house, yo."

[Ben Holder]

Perkins is a dumbass. The funniest thing was I said it wa a personnel matter. I liked that part!

[michele]

The funniest thing is what Cameron said.

[Trace]

Isn't funny that you can break your back, break your neck for someone to get where they desired to be, then once there its as if they never knew you. Back then they were calling everything "sweat equity" .......Ben, glad you and the kids are C-O-O-L! Kick the can down the road, already!

[Ben Holder]

Procrastinate?

[triadwatch]

how much did Andrew Brod make from king zoning stud henry isaacson

[Hugh]

"this means war"

This could be interpreted by the Mayor or council members as literal which might open up a whole 'nother can of worms for Mr. Holder.

It also violates Sun Tzu's principle that war is deception as Mr. Holder is telegraphing his intentions to the opponent.

[Billy Jones]

triadwatch asked, "how much did Andrew Brod make from king zoning stud henry isaacson"

Good question. Andy, are you in the house?

Ben, Way to go!

[Andrew Brod]

That's between me and Henry, obviously.

But one observation about last night. I did a little research for a client and I included the appropriate caveats. The council members seemed to get the point, but one of their comments, about the county-wide nature of the data, partly missed the mark.

It's true that the data I dug up were county-wide rather than focused on the Raleigh and Charlotte downtowns. I noted as much in my memorandum. That's why the data on liquor permits were key, in particular the data on newly inactive permits. Clubs moving from one part of town to another would register as an increase in inactive permits. But my data showed there was no such increase after the other cities' ordinances were strengthened.

More broadly, what my research found was that there's no evidence that strengthened noise ordinances in Raleigh and Charlotte caused any economic problems for downtown nightlife. The numerical data were strong but not definitive, so I interviewed a few people, and they also said there were no problems. Is this the final word? Nope. Maybe other data that don't exist might contradict what I found. Maybe other observers of the Raleigh and Charlotte downtowns would have opposing opinions. But I think what my research means is that the burden of proof should now fall on those claiming economic disaster for downtown Greensboro if our noise ordinance is strengthened.

Okay, so that was more than one observation. See? I provide good value.

[Triadwatch]

Obviously if you are doing research while working for the taxpayers at unc- g than this is public record and needs to be transparent. Nice try king zoning stud Henry Isaacson you sounded like a man on his own island. Where was richie rich Roy Carroll last night?

[Andrew Brod]

I did this research as a private consultant.

However, just so you know for future reference, university research doesn't have to be "transparent." It depends on the type of research.

[Billy Jones]

So Andy, what types of university research must be transparent?

[Andrew Brod]

Call the university and find out. They have smart helpful people over there. But it's not relevant to this thread.

[David Hoggard]

Official Off Camera Account:

I had been sitting between Ben and his kids in the chamber for some time prior to him getting up to challenge the Council. When I asked what he was there to raise hell about, my friend said he wanted to know the meaning of some word... I just dropped it not understanding. But I sensed he seemed a little on edge for an entire hour as we made snide comments amongst ourselves as mundane Council matters came and went.

After he got up for his turn, and the scene escalated, with security gathering around Ben, I told told Cameron and Graham it was time for us to go and hustled them out of there before Ben's council-instructed "escorts" did what they are hired to do. I didn't want his children to see what I knew was about to happen.

Just as we got outside, we heard Ben's Rick Flair imitation emanate from the chamber, and Graham just smiled (Cameron was quite a bit more, how should I say... pensive).

Shortly after, Ben and his assigned entourage of 8 or 9 uniforms emerged through the Council's swinging doors, it was quite a site to behold. Ben said, "c'mon kids, if these guys will let us leave peacefully we will."

And they did.

If you think Ben can be a pill... just wait until his kids come of age. Glad to read the apology... and acceptance.

[sittinginthemiddle]

Ben, it is nice to see that yu have matured enough to notice when you make an ass of yourself to apologize. Now we are waiting for you to mature enough to not make an ass of yourself.

[Ben Holder]

Hogg,

You are a very sweet man and one helluva of a play by play reporter as well.

Sittinginthemiddle,

Please state your name?

[Margaret Banks]

The measure of a person isn't found in their screw-ups. It's found in the apologies for their screw-ups. No one had to wait long for Ben to do that.

[sittinginthemiddle]

"Please state your name?"- Ben

Sittinginthemiddle

[sittinginthemiddle]

"The measure of a person isn't found in their screw-ups. It's found in the apologies for their screw-ups"- Margaret

I beg to differ Margaret, it also lies in the ability of the person to learn from their screw ups not just apologize for them. I have never met a repeat offender who didn't apologize for the last offense.

[Ben Holder]

Banks,

I've never met a person named sittinginthemiddle that wasn't full of shit.

ps
Nice job on the Atkins story!

[Billy Jones]

sittinginthemiddle wrote: "I beg to differ Margaret, it also lies in the ability of the person to learn from their screw ups not just apologize for them. I have never met a repeat offender who didn't apologize for the last offense."

And I've never met an anonymous commenter who wasn't a sniveling coward. You are the lowest of the low.