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Feb 14, 2012

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Fec

If Robbie would provide The Greene Street Club with his itinerary, perhaps they could attempt to do business during his absence. Otherwise, it's ear plugs for Robbie.

Sooner or later, we're going to have to begin to recognize that Robbie is every bit the martinet everybody said he was.

Ed Cone

It's possible that the residents of Center Pointe have a legit beef about noise from the club.

If so, I hope they can settle things without exterminating all the crickets and outlawing rainstorms.

Fec

We're not talking about crickets or rainstorms. At issue is the legit operation of a business which was lured to the location with the reasonable expectation that they could function in a normal fashion. We're talking about a schizoid DGI. We're talking about a bunch of assholes who've been sending mixed messages for years because they didn't have a fucking clue how to develop the downtown area. We're talking about empty suits acting like rank amateurs.

In this instance, Roy Carroll is as much a victim of the downtown revitalization process as The Greene Street Club. The villain is DGI and Mayor Perkins is up to his neck in the process which has now come back to bite him in the ass.

And your attempt to sit on the fence will once again leave you with barbed wire in your shorts.

Jeepers, you make me sick, sometimes.

As usual, I apologize for mixing metaphors.

ron

No offense to anyone who purchased a condo in Center Pointe but when looking to buy a home, people have to do your homework. Its not as if they didn't know those clubs were there before they purchased a unit. I agree there can be too much noise but it shouldn't be eliminated. One problem that may arise is the noise from the nightclubs around a site that could be home to a Wyndham Hotel. I imagine some hotel guest wouldn't like to hear boom boom at 1 am in the morning. There would have to be some soundproofing and maybe that should be the standard for all residential developments near South Elm Street.

Ed Cone

Defining the absurd contours of the proposed regulation by pointing to easy-to-imagine and obviously ludicrous examples like crickets and rainstorms seems like an effective approach to me.

Fec

I just don't see how there's a reasonable solution.

Andrew Brod

No reasonable solution? No compromise that both sides might accept? Hence any outcome is by implication unreasonable?

Well, it's an opinion. It's an odd thing to say, but it's an opinion.

Prell_Shampoo_Fan

Let's take this party to polifrog's, folks.

Billy Jones

Any idiot could have seen this coming. Hell, I pointed it out right on this blog years ago.

Therefore, one can only assume our downtown boosters are being led by people dumber than idiots.

Typical.

Compromise isn't always compromise. Clubs are loud places with loud music and loud drunks. Alcohol does that to people and science has yet to find a cure. Any attempt to limit the noise leaves club owners with but 2 choices: close their clubs or move their clubs to places where clubs can be loud. Either choice will leave downtown with empty buildings and falling real estate prices. Our downtown boosters built this mess, they can live with the noise or live with falling revenues-- their call.

There is no compromise, no solution that won't cause falling revenues except one: Leave things as they are.

Morons.

Like I pointed out on this very blog time and time again for the last 10 years: an alcohol fueled economy simply doesn't work-- never has, never will. We might as well try and save the world.

Thomas

When I moved here twenty-seven years ago, downtown was desolate after 5 PM. The changes that have happened in that time seem to me, taken as a whole, a positive. That there might be some growing pains is unsurprising. That doesn't make everyone involved idiots. It also doesn't mean that some solution to this particular problem can't be achieved.

I don't think anyone wants to go back to the ghost town scenario. Trying to create a downtown residential population without the nightlife won't work, IMO. Neither will the opposite.

Billy Jones

Thomas, "It also doesn't mean that some solution to this particular problem can't be achieved."

For example:

Ed Cone

Maybe I'm missing something, but in theory at least this seems like a solvable problem.

We want nightlife downtown, and we want residential downtown.

The main point of contention seems to involve one club and one residential building.

Few people would argue for unlimited noise at all hours, and few people for super-strict noise limitations at all hours. So the parameters of the problem are not vast.

There are other questions about noise downtown. IIRC, a popular St. Patrick's day celebration was canceled because of noise concerns, which seemed kind of fuddy-duddyish to me (I don't live downtown, though).

So maybe this is a chance to have a conversation about noise and the positive impacts of noise downtown that involves all stakeholders and comes to an imperfect but workable solution.

michele

A quick Google search found soundproof windows which block 95% of sound and are shown being used in urban settings. I also found soundproof building insulation. Perhaps downtown developers should take a lesson from this, recognize that downtowns are noisier places than residential neighborhoods, and build accordingly. Hindsight is 20/20.

Eric Robert

Ed, the part that is probably the most frightening to me is the way this issue almost became law. A legislation that would have affected our entire city. The process has been flawed for a while now, but, each time becomes a little more indecent.
One entitled man who is revered as economic development deity is inconvenienced so let's make it a citywide issue affecting thousands of individuals. He was successful with the curfew so why not?
It is very sad , that often, money is a substitute for vision, charisma or a sense of community.
How can we keep on rewarding such entitled behavior...this blatant attempt at hijacking our city's leadership is not worthy of more incentives...it is simply bad for our economy, our morale and our image. It feels feudal to me.

Now,do not expect dgi to stand up for the community on this one as they would need to have a vision and a spine...they also were in support of the curfew .

Fec, I have not heard of a martinet since I was on the receiving end of one a long time ago...the analogy is brilliant as it sure feels the same.
One last note, Nancy Hoffman and the other Councilwomen must all be commended for doing the right thing by us and delaying the vote...good to see !

Billy Jones

Michele, "A quick Google search found soundproof windows which block 95% of sound and are shown being used in urban settings. I also found soundproof building insulation. Perhaps downtown developers should take a lesson from this, recognize that downtowns are noisier places than residential neighborhoods, and build accordingly. Hindsight is 20/20."

You're exactly right, soundproofing is a simple science (softer outer layers absorb sounds and hardened inner layers bounce back what goes thru the absorption layers) but this would require more money from the pockets of taxpayers who "loan" $Millions to downtown developers and lower said profit margins. You realize, of course, the next move will be to get taxpayers to fund the installation of sound proof and bullet proof glass in downtown buildings.

Like you said, hindsight is 20/20 but I was ridiculed (not by you) on this very blog when I predicted this exact problem in these threads.

Eric Robert, "Ed, the part that is probably the most frightening to me is the way this issue almost became law. A legislation that would have affected our entire city. The process has been flawed for a while now, but, each time becomes a little more indecent.
One entitled man who is revered as economic development deity is inconvenienced so let's make it a citywide issue affecting thousands of individuals. He was successful with the curfew so why not?
It is very sad , that often, money is a substitute for vision, charisma or a sense of community."

Right again. Myself and hundreds of others have complained about noise issues for many years now, but it's only a problem when it's a problem for the Martinet.

Again, there is no compromise that can solve downtown noise issues and most every city in the world has proved me right. Either there's noise or there's no business-- take your pick.

Fec

Sorry Ed, but your argument doesn't hold water. Lots of downtown residents have problems with the late night noise, but only one of them happens to be mayor, as Billy suggests.

I suspect Prof. Richard Florida regularly cites Robbieboro to his students as an example of how not to develop a downtown.

BTW, I'm only two letters and one successful election from being a martinet, myself.

Ed Cone

Fec, if "lots of downtown residents have problems with late night noise," that's an argument in favor of limiting noise; those residents would seem likely to welcome a mayor who took an active interest in making it so, rather than resenting his personal stake in the process.

The problem would be if there is no wider complaint and it's actually a very limited issue in which a mayor with a personal stake inserts himself.

sean coon

"lots of downtown residents" don't have an issue with noise. at least not any of the people i know above and below the tracks on s. elm or in southside. i'm sure there are some, but if any noise should annoy them, it would be the train that blasts through the intersection every few hours, including 12am, 2am, 4am, 6am every night/morning. good luck in legislating that whistle away.

michele

@sean: I love trains so much. When I go see homeless people at their camps and a train comes by, I just stop everything and watch the train, transfixed. And invariably, someone who lives at the camp will say, "Yeah, trains are great. You should try sleeping beside a railroad track." ;)

sean coon

i remember your locked-in eyes while we had lunch at natty's, michele. my father grew up in a train town in dunsmuir, california and my grandfather built many of the SPC railroad lines in northern CA. it's in my blood. in the middle of the night the whistle sounds like crickets to me. i sleep peacefully.

Billy Jones

How many decibels is the crack of a baseball bat hitting a home run hit? Tell the Mayor to close his windows, we're tired of listening to his snoring.

Eric Robert

Billy, maybe if you had some "key people" in your neighborhood, you could get the performing art center there! (today s N&R article)

I apologize in advance but I could not resist highlighting just how obscene and offensive this whole thing is..on all levels!

Axelskater

Charlotte & Raleigh have both revamped their noise ordinances recently, due to high density residential/ business development. It was bound to be an issue which Greensboro would have to deal with. In my research, and I have not concluded it yet, not one outdoor entertainment or music venue has been forced to close or stop its programs due to their new ordinances. They both have slightly tougher noise ordinances than Greensboro and they both have thriving nightlife in their downtown area. In the end, the clubs with outdoor venues there turned the music down a little after certain hours, they still stayed open, and the residents can now get sleep. However, if you study Charlotte club owners reactions before the ordinance was passed - they screamed bloody murder it would kill the entire nightlife. This never came to fruition.

Most downtown residents are fine with noise from traffic, people, sirens, trains, even background music etc. They simply ask that music be turned down a little so that all - both businesses & residents - can coexist.

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