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Feb 05, 2012

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Billy Jones

If it's indeed a high crime area then it must be remembered that the City of Greensboro made it so and to spend $72 Million Dollars downtown without first fixing problems created by the City is not responsible governance.

I promise, there will be no downtown performing arts center at taxpayers' expense.

sean

while i'd rather see the PAC downtown than on lee street, i agree that the timing isn't right for either facility. not until folks can get on top of their mortgages, that is.

Ron

Billy if you look at a map of Greensboro, downtown is not the geographic center of Greensboro, Friendly Center is. Technically downtown is in east Greensboro...just saying

Brian

Sean, people can get on top of their mortgages when they are working again. It's a good chance that a PAC will generate both direct and indirect jobs. If that is the bar to be set, we shouldn't pursue a PAC until 2019...nor should we undertake any large civic improvements. This is precisely the time to pursue an investment of this type for the City. Now, if the design ends up being hideous...all bets are off. I, for one, would like to see preliminary designs prior to voting for it in Nov. or regardless of when it hits the ballot.

Billy Jones

Ron, "Billy if you look at a map of Greensboro, downtown is not the geographic center of Greensboro, Friendly Center is. Technically downtown is in east Greensboro...just saying"

Good one. Has nothing to do with the discussion as there's no hard and fast rule that downtowns must be in the center of the city. For example, the downtowns of Detroit and Chicago are at the very edges of the city as the lakes get in the way.... just saying.

Reality is: Mayor Perkins and the rest of the downtown "movers and shakers" are promoting downtown because that's were their real estate investments lie. Had those same people bought up my neighborhood THEY would be pitching the idea of an East Greensboro PAC. Cold hard facts.

Just so you know, while downtown Greensboro doesn't have a body of water, the site I've chosen has two or more full time streams and two previously filled lakes that could be unfilled and restored quite easily. I used to fish and swim in both. There are 2 wooded parks within view. Downtown can't compare.

And my proposal saves $20 Million Dollars right off the top. Who can argue with saving $20 Million Dollars and be considered credible?

Billy Jones

Brian, "Sean, people can get on top of their mortgages when they are working again. It's a good chance that a PAC will generate both direct and indirect jobs."

Any reason why said jobs shouldn't be located in the most hard hit areas of the City and not just downtown? Transportation adds to the burden of being poor-- put the jobs where the people live.

After all, no one from Irving Park will be sweeping the floors of the PAC, will they?

sean

yeah, i just don't agree, brian. building a PAC in greensboro isn't the same as building, say, the barclay center in brooklyn -- revenue and jobs aren't going to just pile up initially. if anything, a downtown PAC would be a long-term investment in downtown, which is great, but the timing seems to be rushed.

2019 is a stretch, but to invest in a center that may not turn a profit the first few years seems like an audacious public investment during these times. i'd like to see a plan that not only balances public and private funding, but presents a solid business plan as well. i've been involved in the music scene here for a number of years and i know how fickle it can be. add in the fact that triad stage has to rely on large out-of-town audience, we'll need some smart planning, booking, marketing, etc.

love the idea, just want to make sure it's done right.

Roch101

Do we know who is serving on the committees?

Brian

2019 is the year I hear economists projecting we will be out of the foreclosure crisis, so not my number. The timing might be rushed...I'm withholding judgment on that right now to give the Committee a chance to present a case. While "these times" aren't good for many individuals, the reality is that in terms of issuing bonds, Greensboro is in a good place now. There will always be competition for bond funds and right now there are no other bond issues on the Nov. ballot and our bond rating is good. We can't say the same for future ballots where it could compete against other bonds.

All that being said, of course the project needs to be the right size, the right cost, a good design, a good location, and I would assume, a business plan would be in place. If we want it done right, we'll need to make sure the Committee hears these concerns.

Ron

Billy says: "And my proposal saves $20 Million Dollars right off the top. Who can argue with saving $20 Million Dollars and be considered credible?"

What good is saving $20 million from construction cost when the venue would lose money for being in a high crime area that people don't want to go to. That's just not being responsible with our tax dollars. The PAC in downtown is a long term investment that will help bring in businesses and other development downtown and would increasing the tax base.

Robert Reddick

Think Charlottesville, VA - block off some block, and you might have a winner.

Billy Jones

Ron, "What good is saving $20 million from construction cost when the venue would lose money for being in a high crime area that people don't want to go to. That's just not being responsible with our tax dollars."

Look, I've explained this before but apparently it's over your head so I'll try and dumb it down. If Greensboro were to build a PAC in East Greensboro then city officials would have no choice but to reduce crime in East Greensboro in order to protect the taxpayers' investment and not be seen as the fools they are.

Was that too complicated for you? Do I need to 'splain' it again?

Ron continues, "The PAC in downtown is a long term investment that will help bring in businesses and other development downtown and would increasing the tax base."

ROTFLMAO!!!

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If there is anything to this economic hocus-pocus then the same should hold true for an East Greensboro location. All things being equal, if it works downtown then it should work in East Greensboro.

But seriously, keep asking questions 'cause I already have the answers waiting. And try to use your head, you're boring me with stupid questions.

Brian

I guess it will be impossible to have genuine discussion of the proposed downtown arts center on this blog. Too bad. I think Sean, Ron and David have contributed good food for thought.

Ed Cone

Brian, I think there's been plenty of productive discussion here, and I hope the powers that be are reading it.

I have issues with the way Billy is making (and making, and makng...) his case, but his larger point about economic development for all of Greensboro is a worthy one, and nobody is forced to respond to, or even read, any given comment or stream of comments.

Billy Jones

Brian, "I guess it will be impossible to have genuine discussion of the proposed downtown arts center on this blog."

As long as the discussion is only about downtown then it cannot be considered genuine. Discriminating against the rest of the city is anything but genuine. Only when the entire city is discussed will it be genuine.


Ed, "...but his larger point about economic development for all of Greensboro is a worthy one...

Sadly, no one other than myself appears to believe you. I see this as an opportunity for all of Greensboro to grow and prosper but it appears that most of your commenters are only concerned with one part of the city and could care less what happens to the rest of us.

sean

billy, maybe, just maybe, other people don't believe that a PAC would be an economic fix-it-all for east greensboro, particularly because we don't believe the location would help draw a crowd. i mean, PAC's have a hard enough time staying in the black when situated in a prime location, let alone in a downtrodden area.

have you considered other initiatives that could better eGSO's economic development?

Billy Jones

sean, "have you considered other initiatives that could better eGSO's economic development?"

Seriously and in all honesty, I would love to hear suggestions.

sean

i wasn't trying to infer that i have, or have any answers... i just don't think this is the type of project that could do the job.

Billy Jones

Solving the problem will involve tearing down most of the projects (low income housing) and redistributing those persons throughout the rest of the city equally. Without first making all of Greensboro share in the problems created by the rest of Greensboro there will be nothing that can be done.

How do downtown's movers and shakers feel about a downtown low income high rise apartment building? Fisher Park? College Hill? Irving Park? New Irving Park? Starmount? etc, etc, etc?

I think we already know the answer. Nobody outside of my neighborhood, and most of the folks inside, gives a damn about my neighborhood and the projects here will only grow larger like the cancers they are.

Greensboro used taxpayers' dollars to put the projects here. Greensboro investors won't invest here because the projects scare investors away. The cancer grows, unchecked and in someone else's neighborhood while all the while the neighborhoods and residents who forced and continue to force the projects on my neighborhood all say, "It's not my problem. Not in my back yard!"

The 40 empty homes inside the little green circle will all be bulldozed along with the homes that are currently occupied to make room for more projects. The Bessemer Shopping Center will become more projects.

And the grocery store ain't coming.

So let downtown build its precious PAC on the backs of the working class and ignore the cancer growing just a few miles away. If you can.

As for me, if I outlive my mother (doubtful) then I'm gone and another home is abandoned. I can't fight the battle alone.

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