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Aug 23, 2011

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Kim

Would Zack still have a conflict?

Billy Jones

If protest petitions can come into play in the White Street argument then their use to block the landfill might also block the other projects landfill opponents want to see put in place.

Cutting off the nose to spite the face comes to mind.

Ed Cone

Re Matheny, I would assume he's still out, as his conflict (he works for company that has a one-off deal with the company behind the vendor selected for White St) is still relevant.

Kim

Yea, I just made the connection to DH Griffen with Gate City Waste, it still seems to me the Robbie has a much more direct relationship with DH Griffen than Zack does.

Billy Jones

Kim wrote: "Yea, I just made the connection to DH Griffen with Gate City Waste, it still seems to me the Robbie has a much more direct relationship with DH Griffen than Zack does."

I agree but think it likely that if the rules were actually enforced we'd not have enough members on council to have a quorum.

Even though I've supported the reopening of White Street, when I consider the dirty process that has taken place I think I'd like to see White Street put off until after the election.

And I'm still curious: "As I understand it, the so called "regional landfill" is sited on 300 acres. Not very big for a regional landfill and smaller than what we already have.

Something about this picture just isn't right."

I'm at a dead end.

Billy Jones

And as Lex points out here: Vaughan is wrong about Protest Petitions.

Thomas

Would you really be shocked at a "naked political ploy" from this group? I wouldn't.

Preston Earle

I, too, am shocked, shocked to find politics going on in the city council.

I'm wondering if the best thing in the long run might be to put this open-the-landfill? question on the ballot as a referendum in the October city council primary election. Seems to me like that is a better way to get a final answer and avoid long-term bickering. The city council election will be a pro forma referendum on the question anyway. Might as well make it a formal one and settle the issue.

Ed Cone

I'm pretty used to politicians being political, but, yes, I think it would be shocking to see the four-person majority reverse its public vote in order to create a sham competition for the purposes of keeping a fellow elected official from voting.

Nancy Vaughan

I'd like to clarify one issue and how it relates to the Protest Petition and the White Street Landfill.

When Phase 4 and 5 were originally rezoned (2003?) it was a Conditional Use Rezoning. One of the conditions was that Phase 4 and 5 could only be used for "borrow dirt". It could not be used for a conventional landfill. According to the Rhino Times "The environmental attorney hired by the city to help it with the landfill lawsuit, George House of Brooks Pierce, discovered that a good portion of the land in Phase IV and Phase V had been zoned by a previous City Council with a condition preventing it from being used as a landfill."

The only way to remove that condition is for the City to petition to have the property rezoned again. At that time a Protest Petition could be filed requiring a "Super Majority" to approve the rezoning.

Abner Doon

From the Greensboro City Council minutes of July 17, 2001 on the White Street Landfill, and the price of diesel fuel since then - Update 2

http://triadwatch.blogspot.com/2011/08/from-greensboro-city-council-minutes-of.html#more

How much has the initial decision cost Greensboro taxpayers?

How can it not seems like what occured,
was the subsidization of some of Greensboro's property owners,
at the expense of all the others
for probably more than $25,000,000 over the last five years?

Why should I have to pay for other's artificially inflated real estate values
after they bought property near the landfill at a discount?

Are most of those who purchased properties at a discount,
because the landfill was there when they bought in,
deserving of a premium funded by everyone else when they sell?

Could many in East Greensboro be recieving misreprested messages
from some who may profit from a particular outcome?

Kim

Was that an earth quake just now?

Abner Doon

Did we just get an earthquake?

sean coon

I felt that in southside, Kim.

Andrew Brod

I felt it too in northeast GSO.

Kim

N&R says it was in VA

Andrew Brod

So, back to the landfill...

Ron

yes it was an earthquake. I felt it too.

Well this changes everything. White Street landfill may not open back up after all

sean coon

Actually, check out the video ed posted the other day. Tim passed away earlier today... Sorry for the redirect...

Ron

Nancy Vaughan,

I think this is the worst kind of politics this city has ever seen. Its down right DIRTY. Even proponents for opening White Street landfill has to see that. It would be very shocking if those four reversed their decision to keep you from voting. I wonder what kind of excuse they will give to the public? probably none since they never explain their votes anyway.

Tony Wilkins

Ron: "probably none since they never explain their votes anyway".

Not true. But if you keep saying it enough maybe you'll convince yourself.

Ed Cone

Tony, it would be helpful if you could link to some clear explanations from the mini-majority about the need for haste in pushing for a 15-year deal and then the hurry-up on the latest RFP, and also about long-term plans for GSO's municipal waste, and (beyond Danny Thompson's claim that he's representing most of the city) some discussion of the political situation wherein many citizens seem deeply upset with this process. Thanks.

Abner Doon

Will Nancy vote to spend about $8 million per year
that the city doesn't have to
to win reelection?

This mistake has probably already cost taxpayers
about $25,000,000.

Open it up, save the money,
and buy into to something else close by.

Then close the landfill to municipal waste.

Every year it stays closed,
we lose somewhere between 4 to $8 million.

We cut the police budget $2.6 million in the last two years
while building a money losing swimming pool.

How many city employees should be fired to pay for the difference?

If many would like to raise everyone's taxes
specifically to keep the landfill closed,
then let's let the city vote on it.

I would prefer that city voters had to vote on it.

The choices are city jobs, a reopened landfill
or a tax increase.

Which would you vote for Ed?

Andrew?

A vote would put the facts in front of everybody's faces.

This is not a racial issue.

This is a consequence of poor decision making.

Let's get informed and take a vote together
as a community.


Ron

Abner people are more upset about this whole process. I don't think its political suicide at all for Nancy to vote to keep it close. Clearly there were other alternatives to save money not discussed publicly and the majority four aren't even looking into the regional landfill idea.

Abner Doon

Anyone else?

Is that it?

Abner Doon

As posted at Guarino

http://guarino.typepad.com/guarino/2011/08/who-is-michael-roberto.html

...who ever else wants to debate the merits
of the White Street Landfill issue
know that any responses are welcome,
and I will be more than happy to debate them.

George Hartzman

Billy Jones

How about some perspective for those who might not know their way around Asheboro? The landfill some people want to dump Greensboro's garbage into is 6.4 Miles from downtown Asheboro and getting Greensboro's garbage there will involve driving tractor-trailer trucks down some of the most treacherous roads in Central North Carolina. Or the trucks could be rerouted through downtown Asheboro.

Oh yeah, that's gonna fly.

I know the road because that's where we locals go to ride twisties on our motorcycles. Lots of great curves, one lane bridges, whop-de-dos....

Abner Doon

So what's the fix?

Billy Jones

Abner Doon asked, "So what's the fix?"

The very thing I've been saying for years. The very thing I went before City Council and tried to get through their thick skulls in 2007. Move the entrance to White Street to Cone Blvd and build a city owned waste to energy plant on the landfill property with the help of NC DENR, NC A&T and NC State. Use it as a research station to expand W2E state wide and the State of NC could help foot the bills. Even if the W2E plant operates at a loss the loss will be less than shipping to another county and in doing so it would bring high tech jobs to East Greensboro.

And if Duke Power doesn't want to play along (they usually don't) the energy produced can power city owned buildings and charge batteries on city owned electric vehicles and a business park or luxury motel built next door to the White Street location.

Other cities would then be paying Greensboro to make energy from their trash.

Then dig up the existing landfill and make energy from what's been in the ground for 50 years.

Everybody wins, developers get their luxury motel, landfill opponents get rid of the landfill, no more shipping costs and good paying jobs for East Greensboro.


But alas, being that everyone on both sides of this issue has their heads up their asses, we'll keep shipping to Montgomery County until that's full, like it or not. Then Greensboro will be paying some other city because that city beat us to the punch.

Abner Doon

"...Even if the W2E plant operates at a loss the loss will be less than shipping to another county and in doing so it would bring high tech jobs to East Greensboro."

Prove it.

"...if Duke Power doesn't want to play along (they usually don't) the energy produced can power city owned buildings and charge batteries on city owned electric vehicles and a business park or luxury motel built next door to the White Street location."

Prove it will be cost effective.

"Everybody wins, developers get their luxury motel, landfill opponents get rid of the landfill, no more shipping costs and good paying jobs for East Greensboro."

Billy, I believe we are heading for another Great Depression.

What you are saying is an admirable goal,
truly a beutifull view,
but I fear not a realistic one in the near to mid term.

I think local government revenues are about to take a pretty big hit
from the federal gov side, as well as from the state,
due to some large corp tax revenue shortfalls.

We are about to be presented with a massive jam.

Whoever ends up with the lowest tax rates,
with the least amount of debt
and the best trained workforce
will most likely bring in the most new jobs.

Simple as that.

Whatever doesn't fit into that goal,
of keeping our community financially healthy
in the near term,
needs to be fixed to bring in as many jobs as possible
while others shed employment due to locally high overhead.

It's cutthroat time.

Let's not enter the competition at a disatvantage,
because if we choose an illogical course of action,
we will be left behind.

Billy Jones

So what's the fix?

Abner Doon

touché

Open it up, save the money,
and buy into to something else close by.

Then close the landfill to municipal waste.

Have the most fun in the shortest time
with the least risk for as long as possible,

Don't do to others, what you wouldn't want done to you,
unless you need to
as long as "need" = sustenence and a temporate climate
and want is everything else.

Support local businesses.

Forget what you give, value what you get
and replace what you break

Do the right thing when no one’s looking

Leave others better off for having known you
and the world a better place than you found it

Give your family the chance to succeed
your forefathers gave your parents
and your parents gave you

look within for faults found in others

Hope everything happens the way it does.

Leave unanswered questions.

Billy Jones

There is one major flaw in your plan: "Open it up, save the money,
and buy into to something else close by."

There is nothing nearby to buy into. Show me a single piece of property in Guilford County that can be approved for MSW-- there isn't one. NC DENR and the EPA won't allow it to happen-- ever. The only properties that meet the physical requirements are already covered in high end housing, schools, highways and shopping centers.

And before you point to the County Prison Farm, it's located less than 1 mile due east of the White Street Landfill and you can bet current landfill opponents will block that as well. Any effort to turn the county farm into a landfill will lead to a very swift incorporation of the community of Mcleansville-- the largest unincorporated community in North Carolina. A community that is already very afraid of encroachment by Greensboro.

As for buying in to any existing landfill-- anyone who would sell part of their landfill to Greensboro is a fool when they can make 10 times as much in tipping fees. And those who work in the waste industries are a lot brighter than you give them credit for.

I've worked in waste industries. I'm a certified transfer station operator in the state of North Carolina. I've hauled garbage from New York to Missouri. I've dealt with NCDENR and EPA. I know the people who have ultimate control over where a landfill can be placed. Your experience?

Your short term thinking will lead to Greensboro hauling garbage even farther than we do now.

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