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« County commish | Main | Not goofy, just excited »

Mar 18, 2010

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Lex

But this is all a Google "plot," right?

Jim Caserta

Wait, I've seen someone comment here about on-demand TV and the importance of TV to the fiber network...

Jim Caserta

From a month ago

Bubba

"But this is all a Google 'plot,' right?"

Why do I get the following statement when I go to Google search?

"Google would like to have access to your location.The Google toolbar will periodically use the network to keep your location up to date."

Under Privacy: "When My Location is active, Toolbar will automatically send local network information (including, but not limited to, visible WiFi access points) to Google Location Services in order to determine your location."

No, there's nothing wrong with Big Brother Boogle, supporter of Big Broadband and Net Neutrality asking for information like that, is there?

I'm sure it's for my own good.

Ed Cone

Like Lex said, a plot.

Faster internet is the tool of the devil.

Bubba

"Like Lex said, a plot.

Faster internet is the tool of the devil.
"

No big surprise here.

Just another typical comment we've come to expect from you: All snark, no substance.

Jim Caserta

From Ed's link, Google is partnering with Intel, Sony & Logitech.

You do have options - use a different search engine, and if Google put in a fiber network, stick with your existing provider.

Google's 'plot' is what Ed has stated numerous times - make as much money as possible. Privacy is a concern with any number of businesses you deal with, your bank, cell phone company, catv provider.

sean coon

google's entire business model is based on being the 21st century mining company -- of data, rather than coal.

sharing personal data is a choice we all make when using the web, let alone google. and compared to many other online companies, google does a damn good job of providing clear opt-ins at each of their service sign ups and convenient opt-outs once you've already joined.

opting into releasing any data for google to mine, analyze, repurpose and present back to you or others is your call. obviously by the sheer popularity of google's services, many people find it to be a commonplace request with value.

your mileage varies. who would've thunk it?

Bubba

"Privacy is a concern with any number of businesses you deal with, your bank, cell phone company, catv provider."

My bank doesn't solicit me to reveal additional private information when I do online banking on its site. Neither does my cell phone company or my CATV company.

Bubba

"...opting into releasing any data for google to mine, analyze, repurpose and present back to you or others is your call."

Not if I use Google as my ISP, in the unlikely event that it comes to that.

Jim Caserta

Really? Your bank gets more than enough private information by your transaction history, as would your phone & cable companies too. Ever wonder how you get direct mail marketing for something that you've never signed up for, and why the 'we will not sell your personal information' language is even needed? The companies you do business with use your personal information for their benefit, and used to sell your personal information to benefit other companies (some probably still do, but I've seen a lot more of the 'we will not sell...').

Do you think Microsoft would not want to use your personal information in the same way Google would? Who would you trust to build this network? Any of the companies listed working with Google?

Jim Caserta

Google building their fiber network would not oblige you to sign up for their service. You could choose to pay more for an inferior product, with no guarantee your privacy would be any more safe.

Ed Cone

My doctor kept asking me questions that no gentleman should answer, so I dumped him for a faith healer.

Bubba

"Really? Your bank gets more than enough private information by your transaction history, as would your phone & cable companies too. Ever wonder how you get direct mail marketing for something that you've never signed up for, and why the 'we will not sell your personal information' language is even needed? The companies you do business with use your personal information for their benefit, and used to sell your personal information to benefit other companies (some probably still do, but I've seen a lot more of the 'we will not sell...')."

Irrelevant to the point.

Google has the capacity to do worse things resulting in a lot more damage than any of those people you listed.

Bubba

"Google building their fiber network would not oblige you to sign up for their service. You could choose to pay more for an inferior product, with no guarantee your privacy would be any more safe."

Again, irrelevant to the point, particularly given the possible exposure if I comply with their request.

TWC doesn't ask me for information that Google asks me for. Neither would Verizon or AT&T.

Are you really so naive and inexperienced in things like this that hyou ave no privacy concerns at all in this area?


Bubba

"My doctor kept asking me questions that no gentleman should answer, so I dumped him for a faith healer."

You were obviously seeing the wrong kind of doctor for the problem that ails you.

Plus, I would categorize most of the people you consult to receive an opinion as just slightly above the level of witch doctors, not faith healers.

sean coon

bubba, like i said, google is in the business to mine data, but they allow you to control how they mine your own data.

if you don't want to expose your location, you don't have to. if you don't want your blog indexed, you have that option too. if you want to dream up scenarios for how google is going to screw you, well, you can do that as well.

the benefit of aggregated location data-mining turns up in all types of location based applications -- whether it be google maps on my android phone or a simple wifi hotspot locator. more than enough people have bought into the fact that privacy has a different meaning than in 1950, which has driven the information economy, so are they naive?

it all depends on the perceived benefit : nefarious deed ratio like everything else in life, i suppose.

i also agree with jim's point. there are tons of other services, online and off, that require serious trust from consumers. take EZ Pass as an example. they hold a time stamped, location-based record of each car used on one of their toll roads. i actually met someone who wouldn't use it, no matter the speed it provided, because he thought it could be used against him in some nefarious way.

i guessed he was having an affair.

what are you up to? (i don't expect you to opt into answering me)

Anthony

If you're not a terrorist and aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Isn't that the way these things work?

Bubba

"....if you don't want to expose your location, you don't have to."

Why do they ask in the first place?

Is it intended for dupes like Anthony, who are likely to give it?

Does Yahoo, MSN, et al ask for things like this?

Of course not. They know better.

Apparently, Google thinks it's the digital version of Barak Obama and the Dem Congress....they can get away with anything, as long as the people don't stop them. And in the case of health care "reform" assuming the right of authority and control obtaining information they have no right to ask for, they're supported by people like you.

Ed Cone

Sean just described some of the benefits to users of aggregated location data.

Yahoo! seems to be in the game, as are several others.

Om Malik: I believe that the web has to become more dynamic, more intelligent and will need a degree of serendipity. And that will give us the ability to find the content we like and want to consume without making much of an effort.

Location-aware services are perhaps the best way to provide that context. For the longest time, we have associated such location-services with automobile navigation devices and mobile phones. But recent efforts, most notably those of Yahoo, have brought location into the realm of the wired web.

sean coon

"information they have no right to ask for"

haha. you're ridiculous, bubba.

Anthony

"Does Yahoo, MSN, et al ask for things like this? Of course not. They know better."

From Yahoo's privacy page:

"When you register we ask for information such as your name, email address, birth date, gender, ZIP code, occupation, industry, and personal interests. For some financial products and services we might also ask for your address, Social Security number, and information about your assets. When you register with Yahoo! and sign in to our services, you are not anonymous to us.

...

Yahoo! automatically receives and records information from your computer and browser, including your IP address, Yahoo! cookie information, software and hardware attributes, and the page you request."

From MSN's privacy page:

"At some Microsoft sites, we ask you to provide personal information, such as your e-mail address, name, home or work address, or telephone number. We may also collect demographic information, such as your ZIP code, age, gender, preferences, interests and favorites.

...

We may collect information about your interaction with Microsoft sites and services. For example, we may use webWeb site analytics tools on our site to retrieve information from your browser, including the site you came from...

...

Additionally, we collect certain standard information that your browser sends to every website you visit, such as your IP address, browser type and language, access times and referring Web site addresses."

sean coon

it's 2010. we could play this example game every day for the next year and bubba would still be yelling at the kids to get off his lawn.

Steve Harrison

Sean, his yard is probably riddled with anti-personnel mines or punji-stick enhanced tiger traps (or both), so I don't think he would be yelling at the kids. That might taint the "free will" aspect of the experiment, making him partially responsible for whatever happens.

sean coon

i just spit ginger ale out of my nose.

Jim Caserta

Privacy concerns deserve respect, but the appropriate amount. A bigger issue than what Bubba lists is Google Buzz - something I don't plan to sign up for. However, Bubba's particular concern is misguided for another reason. He's concerned about Google asking your location. Google is going to provide fiber-to-the-HOME. While you're using Google's service, they'll have a good idea where you are - you're hooked to their network connection! Just like T-W knows I'm near my house right now. Your location is usually traceable online through your IP, unless you go through a site that sort of cleans your trail. Also, Verizon doesn't need to ask you your location, they just use your phone to determine where you are.

As Sean lists, location based search is VERY useful. When I was in San Diego, looking for restaurants or attractions online, I used the search through the maps function. There would have been a much easier way to determine my location - I was connecting through a Hilton WiFi with a prominent location.

But the loop's closed with the analogy to Democrats. It all comes down to politics, everything, all the time.

Roch101

I had to wait for the laugh attack of a Patriot Act supporter worrying about privacy to subside. Still chuckling, of course privacy is a significant concern. Bubba is right to acknowledge it and wrong to think his bank, current ISP and cell phone provider shield him better than Google (see recent cell phone companies turning over your location without a warrant to law enforcement.)

Google has said they will allow other ISPs to provision service over the pipes they will install. If enough people demand greater privacy and Google and TWC will not provide it, another provider will step up to meet that unmet demand.

Ed Cone

NYT front page biz section this AM:

Location is Where It's At...if that sounds like old news — Foursquare made its debut here in 2009 — consider that much larger companies are just now bolting location awareness onto their existing applications.

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