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« 1789 | Main | General Hagan »

Oct 17, 2009

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bubba

Health Care in Paradise. What a deal!

Except for the operating losses, the mandates, fewer coverage choices, the high premiums and a failed kids' program.

No big deal, if you're the New York Times, or Ed Cone....

Fred Gregory

Bubba Bullseye !...Whussh. That was the sound of the wind going out of that utopian dream.

Ed Cone

Utopian dreams are just that, dreams.

In the real world, there are choices and tradeoffs.

I think a lot of people would happily take the benefits described in the article, even with the problems described in the links.

Roch101

Bulls eye if your target is the broad side of a barn. Some of Bubba's links are specific to the Hawaii reforms, others are not and none tell of anything that is unique to Hawaii and doesn't happen already under our current system.

bubba

In other words, neither of you actually have anything of substance to support the meme that Hawaii is Health Care Paradise.

Health care delivery and financing exists in the real world. For those who support some of the worst ideas currently being passed off as health care "reform",it's well past the time for you to begin understanding those particular points.

Andrew Brod

I love bubba's style. Disagree with him and he claims that you've said nothing of substance. Express an opinion and he asks what credentials you have to express that opinion. He's very talented, and that's not a snark.

My reaction to the Hawaii links was precisely the same as Roch's, i.e. that they weren't great news for Hawaii but not particularly relevant to the reform issues at hand.

bubba

The point in my original comment is that Hawaiian style health care is no role model for the rest of the country, for the reasons illustrated in the links. That was obviously lost in the subsequent comments that chose not to address the issues illustrated.

Do you disagree?

By the way, its it no longer required of advanced degree candidates to validate their opinions by defending their theses these days in the world of academia? Has the level of rigor needed been lowered to the standard used in media these days?

Ed Cone

I think the benefits described in the article outweigh the info described in the other links.

Pointing out a system's imperfections does not prove that it's a bad system -- nothing is perfect, and this one seems to function better for more people than the systems it might replace.

Whether Hawaii is the exact template for a national plan can be debated, but its system seems to function at a level many Americans would welcome.

bubba

"I think the benefits described in the article outweigh the info described in the other links."

"I think" being the operative words. For others, the negative points illustrated (mandates, fewer choices, failed programs, and operating losses in certain sectors) say otherwise.

Jim Caserta

To the item about the cost of individual insurance going up. It is a logical extension of requiring employers to provide group coverage. Individual insurance rates going up is not the same as overall average rates going up. The Times also acknowledges that some HI hospitals are losing money, but guess what - so are many mainland hospitals!

There were many positives listed in the Times article, ER's operating as actual emergency rooms is one huge benefit.

Ed Cone

"I think" being the operative words.

Right, of course, and the more info presented, the better. Thanks for your contributions.

The net benefits as I understand them are compelling in my view.

"Paradise" was a poor title for the post -- it was meant as a play on the location, not a statement of belief about the plan.

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