If loitering is the problem downtown, why is the City hassling businesses and their paying customers?

What's the point of encouraging downtown nightlife and then making it no fun? Don't we want a vibrant street scene?

Ridiculous.

Comments

[Don Moore]

As Rocky Scarfone put it, while they want crowds downtown - they don't want "those" crowds.

[Fec]

Don, Rocco's hit the nail on the head. Just like the bus to Charlotte or the local blogosphere - the wrong people keep showing up.

[anonymous]

Who are the "right" people? The law-abiding ones??

[Ed Cone]

Cafe seating is generally reserved for customers. Aren't customers of legitimate businesses exactly the people we want downtown?

[cara michele]

Ed, I think there are two very distinct issues here:

#1 - Is the City's sidewalk cafe ordinance appropriate?

#2 - Are Mr. Scarfone and Much Management above the law? Should GPD only enforce those laws that Mr. Scarfone and Much Management (and/or Zack Matheny) agree with?

» YES! Weekly's blog has a detailed account of the repeated violations and repeated warnings that led up to the arrest. Interesting.

[Ryan Shell]

I think if the late night loitering were to get under control some of the fears from the ordinance change would be eased. And no I'm not just talking about two or three people standing on a corner. I'm talking hundreds. Their is a video circulating that clearly shows the problem... I'll see if I can get it sent to you Ed.

In regards to the cafe ordinance, I think it clearly needs to be changed. I would be for a 7 am - midnight ordinance. This would allow folks to sit outside in the am and also allow businesses to stay open until a bit later.

To be clear, I think having crowds in downtown is awesome and no none loves to see Elm St. packed more than me. That being said, safety is also key.

Ryan

[Ed Cone]

Laws should be enforced the same for everyone.

Seems to me that this law should be changed.

I'm still trying to understand the connection between cafe seating for paying customers, and latenight loitering.

[mick]

Does anyone remember the looooong battle for push cart style food vendors? Same/Same. This town does not like change or admitting they are overzealous or wr...wr...wrrr ... incorrect.

It will happen. My guess would be sooner rather than later. Downtown and all you know.

[Reader100]

There is absolutely no relationship between the cafe sidewalk ordinance and loitering.

Loitering -- to stand idly about; linger aimlessly.

The loitering ordinance applies to someone who has no business being there or has no legitimate purpose of being in an area other than to just stand around.

A person eating at a restaurant outside on the sidewalk is engaging in commerce, not standing around so I can't understand why loitering is a part of this conversation.

In this case, I think Ed is right. The ordinance should be repealed or at least amended.

But from what I hear, the manager brought the city's wrath upon himself, as they gave him multiple warnings and he pretty much dared them to do something about it. The city did everything it could to get him to take the tables off before they made a last resort action.

He should have complied until the law was changed, as it will most likely be amended soon from what council members have said and I think most people would agree it's a good change for the city, except for Downtown Greensboro.

Aren't the idiots at Downtown Greensboro, Inc. supposed to be SUPPORTING downtown businesses, not trying to close them down?

Only a bureaucrat at a nonprofit who gets paid for sitting at a desk would try to link crime and "safety" with putting a few tables out on a 20 foot wide sidewalk to make room for outdoor seating.

I suppose he would rather have it like when only "respectable folks" visited Elm Street and the "good old days" when the sidewalks rolled up at 5pm. Downtown Greensboro was a ghost town and no thanks to Downtown Greensboro, Inc. it's finally got a large number of people who go out to enjoy it instead of staying home to watch "Murder, She Wrote."

[cara michele]

There is absolutely a link between sidewalk seating and public safety, but my responding comment got so long that it became a post: "Much drama: How sidewalk seating affects public safety downtown."

Peace,
CM
(not a nonprofit bureaucrat, nor a for-profit one, either)