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« Joe does the math | Main | Creative culture »

Sep 27, 2007


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That not everything goes their way helps establish the necessary bonafides. Besides, no evidence can besmirch St. Wray.

David Hoggard


I think that Miles should address the allegations and look forward to reading what Margaret finds out. The description of the meeting dovetails into my take on the siege mentality the city attorney's office has been exhibiting for quite a while.

But I find it pretty amazing that the "St. Wray" camp (thanks Fec) isn't even acknowledging the other information in the letter. To me it corroberates information found in the RMA report and lends credibility to the actions of Johnson toward Wray.

You gotta take the good news (that matches your view) with the bad news (if it doesn't) if that letter is to be heralded, as you say, as an unimpeachable, smoking gun document.


The "St. Wray camp" isn't accepting anything as gospel about this letter except that it was apparently never presented to the City Council by the City Attorney. If this is true then there certainly is a breach of trust between the employer and the employee. (the alleged crime for which Wray was forced to resign.) As for the letters that Jones supposedly turned over to Linda Miles that are evidential of Wray's wrong doing, why doesn't the City Council release them to the public? If these allegations are true and can be proven to be true then finally we will see something documented that St. Wray actually did and not just be told that he did.

You really can not expect anyone to take the word of the attorney for the person(s) accusing Wray as evidence. The "St. Wray Camp" is not made up of fools or babes in toy land. BB


How long before "St. Wray" works itself into the newspaper, ya think?

Joe Guarino

I think the importance of the Jones letter is that it corroborates similar allegations made elsewhere, by other parties, on the matter of Linda Miles.

The other statements Jones makes have been contested; and a credible alternative version of reality has been offered. Thus far, we have not been offered an alternative version on the Miles allegations.

The CA

Hoggard, et al, if Jones has such evidence, where is it? What you're missing about this letter isn't the allegations contained in the letter from Jones. He is playing the role of advocate for his client so of course he's going to paint his "case" in the best light. As a lawyer, his assertion about "concrete evidence" means nothing to me. I tell judges all the time about "concrete evidence" to bolster my clients case, knowing that what is "concrete" is in the eye of the beholder. Where is this evidence? Don't expect to see it anytime soon.

The point is that Jones has no incentive to distort or slant Miles' comments at the basement meeting which makes the assertion about Miles more credible.

"During my involvement with Ms. Miles in this matter it always struck me that the plight of the black officers was a means of pursuing a personal grudge against David Wray and not of genuine concern"
-Walt Jones letter


“How long before "St. Wray" works itself into the newspaper, ya think?”

Maybe…when the “Johnson-Miles Unabridged Version of the Holy RMA Scriptures” does…


It's just another day of the anti-Wray forces grasping at whatever straws may appear.

Tomorrow or next week, it will be something else.

Business As Usual......

Fred Gregory

What Joe and Sam said.

David Hoggard told me this week that:" My wait and see-is based on information that I have that you may not. And no I won't share thatinformation because it, likeall the rest is hearsay. "

All the rest is hearsay.!! Wow that is some statement. A Chief of Police has been forced out on hearsay. Hoggard has stumbled onto the truth. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Waiting for the examination of the Jones letter by your divine and infallible N&R , are you David ?

Well this seems to sum it all up, don't you all think ?
Put Up Or Shut Up


posted same at Sam's---

I have visited with Hogg and like him. He is a good guy. He is ready to move on and here is my simple thought.

If it was Hogg that was in the same place as David Wray I would bet that he would not be ready to move on and that he would want me/us to champion him until proven guilty as I would believe what Hogg told me to be true. David Wray was top of his class in high school and has been a top performer ever sense. What happened?...one day he woke up and said..hmmm...let me become a complete screw up?
I don't think so.

It irks me that we have a few that are ready to not offer any form of innocent until proven guilty.


Hogg, I am so proud of you for taking on the usual suspects at your place. Nothing was achieved, but nothing ever is with this crowd.

Know this, all of you: I would not cross the street to shake the hand of David Wray or Mitch Johnson. They are each terribly flawed and the sooner they fade from memory the sooner this wonderful City can begin to heal.



What reason/proof do you offer for your cold handed approach ...as it pertains to Wray?

The CA

Moffett-Banks' decision on whether to write the story is not yet final.

David Hoggard

Meb, thanks, and of course I would want everything you say.

But... if I was in the same position as Wray, and I felt that I had been completely and publicly wronged by my employer. There is one thing I promise you I would be doing that Wray is not.

I would personally and forcefully tell my story to you and everyone else that would listen. I would refute every statement - personally and forcefully - that anyone made that I knew to be untrue. And I wouldn't do it in anyway but through this medium.

You would get it 'first person' and not through any intermediary, attorney, or print publication.

Since our manager and city council can't (or, some will say, won't) put all of the information out there that we all want, that would seem to give Wray a chance to personally fill the vacuum ...in his own voice, with his own words.

That's what I would do.


Meb, or whatever your fucking name is (points taken way for complete lack of originality), I don't defend my actions to snot-nose pups like you.

A lot of you newbies would do better to shut up and listen, rather than continue to flaunt your ignorance.

I haven't trotted this one out in years: Meb, you're a mental midget.


"A lot of you newbies would do better to shut up and listen, rather than continue to flaunt your ignorance.'

The irony in that statement is just astounding.

Good work, Fec. I'm proud of you.



I believe that for the most part you and Wray think precisely the same way with the exception that you would choose to blog it. David Wray chose to permit Jerry Bledsoe to interview him and I guess research the topic with many others and then publish using our local paper. (I am not sure if a joke is intended with regard to local paper.) Wray gains the credibility of an objective reporter doing the job. It seems to me that the city leadership is doing all it can to defend itself from what?....from what? Something just does not feel right and has not all along. I want confirmation and do not believe it is at hand.

Unfortunately with blogging...as soon as you add a few more posts the visibility drops to zero within a few days. (or at least that is what I have found to be true)

I am not sure what I would have done...but I think you both are very close in your methods.

One thing is for sure. I would feel very comfortable having either you or David Wray watch my back when the going got tough. My gut feeling does not permit me to include our city attorney or our city manager...and some of the GPD being investigated.

I will also say it one more time. If it works out that Wray is guilty and should of been fired I will be the first to blog my apologies to all in city leadership. I just don't think he is after the RMA report, the release of tidbits from the city and the audio tape. I still sense a large bulge under the rug.



If all you can do is rant with foul mouthed middle school rants...you show that you have nothing to add...probably never did. Follow your own childish advice and
stay clear.

Find the ass of the mule and get to kissing....or stay on topic with this thread.

...though you did make me laugh...thanks


It grieves me to make you proud, Bubba.

Seriously, Meb, entertainment was my only intent.

I catch an insight once in a while, but mostly I'm just wrong.



I know.

I was one step away from having to threaten to bust the "I" off your keyboard. :)

David Hoggard

I can promise you that if Wray were writing a blog, he retire comfortably on the ads he could sell. Hell... I'd read it many times a day.

There are several here who will say I'm lying, but just as you say, "If it works out that Wray is guilty and should of been fired I will be the first to blog my apologies to all in city leadership." I promise that I will do the same for David Wray should it turn out I have misplaced my trust in not only my instincts, but also people I have known and trusted for years.

Just like you, I'm sure... I don't take betrayal lightly.

But this question remains: What will it take for either you - or I - to come to the place where either of us has enough information to feel the need to issue our respective apologies?


My gut is that for both of us it takes clear concise information that has been promised and not delivered....again and again.

With what I am reading we are much closer....I can't explain it but have felt it ever since reading somewhere about Miles getting angry with Wray sometime back.
Was that RMA...or Ben...? (no offense Ben) I guess my second "can't get beyond" is the extremely poor writing of the RMA document. I don't know hardly anything about law but I find it hard to take serious a document full of opinions..etc.

...nope...not going to post it twice.. :)

You and I trust most in our city's leadership...just not every one.

How about lunch soon? I have lots to ask about.


BTW Meb, you deserve an answer. I feel that GPD and GFD had become cultures in love with accreditation, an expensive undertaking. I see evidence of that in Mitch's unsuccessful attempt to de-fund the accreditation process.


"I catch an insight once in a while, but mostly I'm just wrong."

And a masochist to boot.


Please Bubba, put your fat neck out just once and tell us what you really think. Oh that's right, Guarino hasn't told you, yet.


"Please Bubba, put your fat neck out just once and tell us what you really think. Oh that's right, Guarino hasn't told you, yet.'

Please beg your doctor to give your meds back, Fec.

Maybe Guarino can help you.


Guarino is but another of the crushing blows suffered these last years by the unfortunate citizens of Rockingham County.

I think I did have a couple last night. In deference to my endocrinologist, they were light beers.


And who better to know about "crushing blows" than you, based on the buildup that occurs in your brain from time to time?


Yes, I may have brain-eating bacteria.

Ben Holder

Fec and Hogg:

Is there anything you would like to say to me? Seems you want to talk about me but dont seem to be man enough to do it directly.

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